as long as we win that's the only thing i care about.

When we had Marino everyone complained that we didnt have a running game for years. Now its the opposite. Winning cures everything in the end.

 

Woah..I remember a poster here sarcastically saying a quote like the one Henning just said. Turns out he was right.

 

Coach is laying on a bit of the blarney with that one.

 

I don't know. All we heard last year was Coach talking about needing to get more "chunk" plays/yardage. We now have a Qb with the arm to do it, a reciever with the ability to go get it and the protection to give him the time to make the throw and connect it. With this, there have been precious few shots taken in the 1st 2 games.

So, really, whats up here? Do they not trust Henne? Were they calling a conservative game because we opened on the road and they wanted to try and control the game clock? Are they just sandbagging until we get to these 2 games and then open the playbook up?

I don't know, but as far as I can see, we still aren't getting much of the "chunk" yardage yet.

 

The only part that really annoys me is they have spent sooo much on the OL money and draftpicks and we don't let them earn it in pass pro.

 

So, its exactly what many have been saying all along. More play calling, then the ability of the qb.

We're a ball control, and clock management kind of team. It is what it is, we have to get used to it.

The big plays will come, when the defenses we're up against, will allow for it.

 

You know, that's just it. Minnesota's secondary is not very good and we only threw 14 passes? What's up with that. We should have been ringing that up and we didn't hardly test them.:pity:

 

We will see games this year where henne throws 40+ times, maybe even 50+ like last year. Marshall will have games where he catches 10 balls and gets over 120+ yards. He will score TDs.

I do believe its early and I do believe we were conservative opening up on the road. Against the jets we might not see that gunslinger mentality but as the year progresses we will. We are a run first team but you know the passing game is going to get stats.

 

It doesnt have to be a 70 yard bomb, is a 30 yard pass too much to ask for?

 

We got BM, but our receiving corps is honestly not as good as we would often like to think. Green Bay and the Texans are great examples. GJ, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Finley; AJ, Jones, Walter, Andersen, Daniels. Compare it to BM, Bess, Hartline, Moore, Fasano. We still aren't there personnel wise. Our WR corps is a winning corp. It isn't flashy in the least and I can understand a lack of Dragons thrown per game. Also, Schaub and Rodgers vs Henne. Maybe we just had too high expectations. We're calling for our personnel. Two Pro-Bowl caliber RB's vs. 1 Pro Bowl WR.

 

We had one our first offensive play. 40 plus yards. 3 more tries a game would be nice. I'll not complain and take the win though.

 

And there is another issue:

Beast can play Slot or Boundary Wr, but he is the most effective in the slot.

DBess is most effective in the Slot, not as effective as a Boundary Wr.

Beast being what he is will line up in the slot meaning DBess who is limited to the Slot will not see as many plays in the offense, that is why he did not play much in Minnesota.

INOW either Bess learns to play boundary Wr or someone else will have to step up who can play Slot or Boundary to allow Beast to be the most effective.

 

It's Wannyball writ large.

 

I can see us winning alot of games, with this mind set, yet we will win 0 SuperBowls this way imho.

In the 20's on offensive scoring will just not get us to the Big Dance! Also its a crime to score so low with the weapons we have on hand!

 

they were getting good pressure though. The little forgotten fact about the vikings is that they sport one of the best Dlines in football. Jake was handling Jared Allen pretty well, but, as you said, he only had to pass block him 14 times.

The vikes were getting to Chad. Thus the lack of passing. it all starts up front.

 

IMO Coach is right. If Jake is able to get that block on Kevin Williams Polite'd have been headed into the secondary with 2 OL in front of him. No risk of hitting his head on the goal post I agree, but he stood a good chance of getting us into FG range. My only question is, why not have Cobbs or Lex in on 3rd down?

 

cause we wanna change the game.

 

I posted this in the play calling thread, and I think it still applies. The bold part is specifically where I agree DJ

First I think that regardless of anything we are staying to to our offensive philosophy. Last season from the very start, the goal was to run the ball down the throat of the opposing team and control the time of possession. Well it almost worked (see the Indy game, and Saints game to an extent), but our defense blew those games. If we had the defense of this year those are two wins for sure. Even in the jets game at home last year, the goal early on was to run the smashcat. Now while I think our core philosophy is to control the ball, we also incorporate a take what the defense gives us mentality. If you are going to let us run it all day then we will. But if are going to stack the box then we will pass.

Remember back to the second half of that Jet's game. The defense gave up the lead and we started hitting big plays to come back into. Also think back to the latter games of last season where Chad started passing 30 times a game and having 300 yard passing games. At that point Ronnie was out and teams were determined to stop the run and force the unproven player to beat them. In those games the plays were skewed more towards a passing offense.

Now you say the league is a passing offense so we must adjust, and I ask why? I understand the rules make it favorable to pass, but more passes mean greater chances of interceptions. Also passing more doesn't equate to a guarantee win. Just ask the Redskins. Also look at the Ravens (formerly a running team) who lost because Flacco threw 4 picks.

If 80% of the teams or higher were passing teams, then would not our philosophy of ball control make sense. The other team can't beat you if they don't have the ball. Look at last nights game, the 49'ers came back but they left too much time for Drew Brees to do the same. You eat up some of that time and you force the game into overtime.

 

I wonder if Tony Romo (ranked second currently in PY/G) would rather be Chad Henne right now? It's about the wins guys.. We have yet to be down in a game, Chad hasn't been needed to throw us into a game yet, he's being asked not to throw us out of one.. and he's doing exactly that so far

 

With all due respect, you can't be serious. We've had 182 offensive plays with 119 of them being running plays and RB has all of 26 touches in them.

After our first two games I honestly feel our offense has no identity while our defense is tearing it up! I am slowly coming to believe that Sparano is so into snap count that it means more to him than winning! Ok, so I'm kidding here but only a little, why else are we using RB so little in our offense? I'm a stats guy too but not to the point that I would let it overrule common sense!

 

We're using the same philosophy that almost allowed our "average quality" team of last season to beat both premier caliber SB teams (Indy and NO)..... only now we've drastically improved our defense and added a weapon on offense who would've aided in converting more of those long, ball-controlled drives into more points.

It seems to me that this Miami team wants to conservatively & safely eat up the clock on offense at all costs, physically beat teams up, attack away with our defense, and wait for our opponents to screw up first so we can capitalize on it...... and then continue forcing them to commit turnovers so we can keep them off-balance behind the 8ball. To be able to keep attacking on D, we need to keep our Defense fresh...... hence, less airing it out and lots of ball-controlled, pounding it down teams throats. IMO it all revolves around opposing offenses being on their toes so that our fresh D can continue attacking. If we give up an early pick6 or INT leading to an easy score, then we'd lose some of that advantage b/c it would allow opponents to become more conservative, effectively neutralizing our attacking defense (and philosophy).

I don't think this has anything to do with a lack of confidence in Henne. IMO it's more to do with the team's philosophy. It's not an exciting one that will consistently bring tons of points and yards, but it should bring more consistency to the win column. We're not going to beat teams like the Saints at their own game; we've gotta force them to play ours.

I also feel that Henne is trying so hard to follow their philosophy and not make mistakes that it's causing him to think too much etc...... which is understandable b/c he's still wet behind the ears, and that's a lot to ask of a young QB. However, I'd rather see Chad cognizant about not making turnovers than becoming Jay Cutler 2009. Maybe this is why he's slower through his progressions etc like some members have mentioned...... b/c Chad's a perfectionist who's thinking a lot while the game is still a little fast for him. If so, hopefully in time this mistake-free style of play will become 2nd nature to where he can operate on a highly efficient level while having great confidence in doing so.

 

Look, I agree we are a run first team. But you still have to take shots down the field more than once or twice in a game. To me it's not sounding like conservative play calling but rather scared play calling. And oh by the way, with only 14 passes we still turned the ball over twice on Sunday and it wasn't because it was picked off. So running the ball all the time doesn't mean that you won't turn the ball over.

 

Tin..... our passing game had turned the ball over 23 times in the past 2 years. Not saying that's bad; just stating the numbers.

We don't know before the game that we're going to cough it up twice on the ground, but we DO know that we have 2 running back who had turned it over only 8 times in the past 3 seasons. Seriously man. What level math are you on? LOL. :tongue2:

With a 14 point lead and a defense dominating Minne, there is ZERO reason to come out passing deep in our own territory when there's nearly 3 times greater of a chance that we turn it over passing than running.

And oh by the way, with only 14 passes we WON the game. :wink2:

 

Its the tactic NE began victimizing us with in Marino's waning years.
where early pick6 scores by their defense, made our own passing attack our own worst enemy. Later I'd be appalled when their offense couldn't do squat,
yet without a running game, we'd have no choice but to continue airing it up for grabs, in predictable, high risk fashion.

We'd be stiffled throughout the day, after stumbling early, and never manage to climb back in it.

As for this years offense, the only reason your seeing less, is because the defense is doing more.

Would of been just as conservative had we done the same thing last year, and if our defense had not been so porous.

 

We'll see if the people who keep saying "but it's won us games" change their tune when the conservative playcalling bites us in the butt and loses us games we could have won. Because it will, just as it did with Wanny.

 

With all due respect, you can't be serious.

We have nothing close to 182 offensive plays this year, let alone 119 rushing plays.

 

Such a lack of trust in the regime... This is the same QB who had multiple 300 yard games last year. This is the SAME OC as the last couple years. Same coach, same philosiphies.

I know that a high-octane passing game is exciting but was someone under the impression that the DOLPHINS were going to become that? Listen to what Sparano says, not the media. He said, "A Quarterback is a very fragile thing", and all that. They want to slowly build his confidence. The first couple games he got a few shots deep and either no one was open or as that big Marshall pass, he didn't hit them.

We are 2-0 and at our Home Opener... If any week they are gonna open the playbook a little more, it would be this week! Patience, we're barely into the season!

 

Sparano is far more creative than Wanny so this is a surprise because it is so true, the idea that some off tackle dive to Lou Polite is going for 45 yds for a TD has to be one of the more disinengenous statements Sparano has made.

Cannot ignore results, however only a fool would think we can win games moving forward with a schedule that still has 5 playoff teams in a row on it is living in fantasy land.

 

I hear you Todd and please don't misunderstand me. I agree with you that with a 14 point lead in hostile territory you don't want to start tossing the ball up for grabs. I am also quite aware of the fact that Ronnie fumbling is a rarity to say the least, Ricky on the other hand has always been one that could put the ball on the turf on occasion. I am also more than thrilled with the start of this team.

All I want is for them to open up the offense just a little bit. :wink2:

 

I 100% agree with you but for completely different reasons. Having no identity is a very good thing, because it makes it impossible for defenses to prepare for us.

Most would agree that Henne is at least average or better for his position in the NFL, which means the passing threat is there; especially with Marshall on the field. We're nowhere near a passing team though, and opponents know that to beat Miami they have to come in and stuff the run. So that's their focus in preparation; shut down Ricky and Ronnie while knowing the deep threat is there.

The beauty of this kind of offense is that the corners, linebackers, and safties know 80% of the time they're playing run support, so even though they're turning and dropping into coverage they're watching for the run. Other teams run the ball to open up the passing game; but in essence we're doing the exact opposite because of our stud RB's. As long as we're moving the chains on the ground the defenses will eventually cheat up, and that's when you see plays like on the opening drive last week.

 

See this is where I ask, does no one remember the end of last year? The offense adapted and changed when it needed to throw more.

Bills game (chads first start) 22 pass attempts
Jets game 26 pass attempts
Saints 36 pass attempts
Jets 21 pass attempts
New England 34 pass attempts
Tampa Bay 31 pass attempts
Carolina 29 pass attempts
Bills 31 pass attempts
New England 52 pass attempts
Jags 29 pass attempts
Titans 46 pass attempts
Texans 55 pass attempts
Steelers 20 pass attempts (left the game early though)

What about those numbers shows Wanny ball? The fact is we were a passing team at the end of last season. Also it didn't correlate in to wins that much either. We lost all the games where we passed 29 times or more except the one pats game. So I say again, the offense will change to fit whatever needs it has to do.

 

You guys are really missing a big picture here.

This Team has not face a situation in the last 8 quarters of football, where we are not tied 0-0, and not winning. We have been the first to score both times, we have never had to play behind, and that plays very much to the strength of our offense, namely the short gains/gash runs.

If we were behind, and needed to take the ball down the field fast and take more chances, yeah, I can see airing the ball out. But last I checked you don't get anything extra for winning 100-7 as opposed to 10-7. This team has proven that it can bend but not break on defense. Barring those two unfortunate fumbles by Ricky and Ronnie, the plan would probably make a bit more sense.

All I'm saying is lets hold off judgement on a coaching staff that is 2-0 for the year, and has yet to have any incentive to take risks in the passing game.

 

I believe that you need to pass in this league to win. I also believe that with most QBs it takes about 1000 attempts for the game to slow down. Henne isn't there yet. I expected that he would get there around the end of the year although he might not if he passes just 15 times per game. The coaching staff has to find that balance that gives us the best chance to win and gives Henne the best opportunity to have successes. That's what Bill Walsh did with Montana. IMO Montana was a good but not great passer, who b/c of the system he was in, the players that surrounded him and how he was developed became one of the best QBs ever. I see Henne as having a different skill set than Montana, but with similar development potential in a run heavy, play action system. I want Henne to be surrounded by enough play makers and be developed in a manner that helps him reach that potential. I thought Marshall was a great signing and a substantial step towards the end of surrounding Henne with enough play makers. I feel the F.O. missed the opportunity to add a play making TE this past offseason though. I also wonder if the coaching staff didn't miss an opportunity to give Henne some successes in the second half of that game in Minny against a depleted secondary and a defense that looking to stop the run. I won't go as far as say it was a mistake or a missed opportunity b/c getting a win in that situation is difficult and they accomplished it. But I do wonder if they made it more difficult than it had to be. We'll never know of course. But going forward I'll be looking for signs that this staff understands that running the ball every time doesn't give you enough margin for error and almost inevitably leads to Wanny and Schottenheimer like seasons. I want to see signs that they are trying to develop Henne and not just hoping that he develops on his own with 15 attempts per game. I hope they decide to help him by continuing to bring in play makers and by putting him in situations to succeed. I do see some signs, the Marshall addition and the percentage of first and second down passes for example. So I don't want it to seem as if I think they're doing everything wrong, b/c I don't. I just get worried whenever I hear Sparano focus almost exclusively on negative plays an Henning say he'd prefer to run on every play. I get scared that the next sentence will be about how there are three possible outcomes on a pass play and two of them are bad. That kind of thinking will only lead to a series of missed playoffs or first round exits. Anyway, sorry about the above regurgitation of my stream of conscious thoughts.


As for the 3rd and 20 play, I thought it was a good call. I thought the odds of picking up the first were relatively small against a defense that was sitting back in coverage. And that odds of getting 10 yards of or so with a draw against that D were higher. I also felt that playing for the FG was the smarter move compared to risking turning the ball over seeing as how the game was developing. And apparently their film study indicated that Minny was particularly susceptible to that play so they had even more reason to believe in it. The defender just made a great play. It happens. But it illustrates why you can never just hope to run it every down. There are too many good and great players on the defenses and they will from time to time make great plays. You need to give your offense the opportunity to make a few plays of their own. So I hope they understand that its not just the negative plays you look at but rather the balance of negative plays and big plays. I should stop before I slip into another stream of consciousness moment.

 

Offensive Weapons.

Brandon Marshall.
Ronnie Brown.
Ricky Williams
Chad Henne.

You look at those four and tell me we can't get some explosive plays here? Either our coaches have turned into chickensheez or they have no faith in Henne. Or something else. We should be chewing up opposing defenses. Those are 3 pro bowlers right there and Hartline/Bess ain't chopped liver either.

 

I don't agree that RW is on that list anymore. He appears to have lost that half step or so that is the difference between that 3 - 4 yard carry and the +12 yard chunk, at least on a consistent enough basis.

I also don't think Henne has been given enough opportunities to show he deserves to be on that list either.

I do think Brown has demonstrated the talent to be on that list, but I don't think any coaching staff other than Cam's has taken advantage of it. IMO he should be our third down back the large majority of the time.

 

I'm quoting an answer I gave in a different thread b/c it applies here:

I see zero reason for putting a team's season in the hands of a young, still-learning QB when we have an Oline & running backs built for pounding the football to coincide with a physical, dominating defense meant for attacking & creating turnovers.

Henne's doing exactly what we want him to do; he's giving us a chance to win while he's growing & developing which is allowing our defense (our current team strength) the ability to stay fresh & continue attacking away. If we pass less and run the ball more, we can hopefully control the TOP, which means our defense can continue operating on a high level throughout the entire game. Eventually the game will slow down more for Henne to where he'll be able to add in a few more scattered big plays like he did on play 1 vs Minne.

No disrespect please, but I love how some of you guys automatically assume Henne is the reason we're not throwing more-- that the FO lacks confidence in him b/c of our "lack of passing attempts".

How about the fact that:
1. we traded Cam (one of our most reliable receivers)
2. have 2 rookie FAs WRs
3. have a 2nd year #2 (Hartline) who dropped more balls than he caught during preseason & week 1
4. have a TE who averages 263 yards/season
5. who the hell knows at 2nd string TE
6. Brandon Marshall who I'm guessing still needs some time to gel with Chad and has a history of starting a season slow.

Of course NONE of this could be a reason for not wanting to pass more. Sure, it's all Henne. :shifty: (if the "lack of confidence" excuse even exists)

 

We rushed for 130 yards against a defense that we KNEW going in had allowed only 75 YPG rushing over the past 4 seasons. That should tell everyone something. It has less to do with lack of confidence in passing and more to do with confidence in running.

Why is it so difficult for people to understand that this team wants to pound the ball, control the clock, play mistake free, and force teams into turnovers that we can capitalize on. Nowhere in this philosophy does it require or imply airing it out.

We've led from start to finish in 8 qtrs of football so far. Enough said. We will pass more when we need to pass more. And we'll gradually see more random big plays from Henne as he becomes more comfortable in the offense AND comfortable & trusting of his receivers.