Omar K Rosenhaus says Roth would make more if phins released him

To which Sean Smith's agent replied...

did u think this wasnt anything but a veiled holdout

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.

This is such bull- I swear if hes holding out because he thinks he can make more money on another team I say we trade his ass right now.. You play and you will get paid like the man.. Pull this pre-madona **** and your gone..

"Dorfdad wrote:

This is such bull- I swear if hes holding out because he thinks he can make more money on another team I say we trade his ass right now.. You play and you will get paid like the man.. Pull this pre-madona **** and your gone..

I don't believe he can be traded from the PUP list Dorfdad, he cannot practice either.

This is going to come to a head sooner or later, to me Sparano is done with Roth and is just sending a strong message that he will not be screwed around with, Roth may or may not be injured, either way though..Sparano had -0- problem putting him on PUP and talking up the talented Q Moses..

In that great line from the Soprano's "Those who want respect, give respect"

Omar K has strangely untweeted that post and Mike Berrardino has picked up the story:

MikeBerardino"I guess he would be a hot commodity if he were released and he definitely could make a lot more money if he were released by the Dolphins"
8 minutes ago from web

MikeBerardinoDrew Rosenhaus on Sports Xtra regarding Matt Roth: "I don’t have any fear that they would cut Matt. Matt is a big- time player. .

That sounds like a feeler to me...

"padre31 wrote:

Omar K has strangely untweeted that post and Mike Berrardino has picked up the story:

That sounds like a feeler to me...

If Drew messes around with this management his player could be out the whole year with the same small paycheck as Drew is saying.:wink2:

"Dorfdad wrote:

This is such bull- I swear if hes holding out because he thinks he can make more money on another team I say we trade his ass right now.. You play and you will get paid like the man.. Pull this pre-madona **** and your gone..

Ya know what... Screw matt roth. If thats really whats going on here... honestly... just ask for your release, and get out of here. This team doesnt need that crap. Sure, you adapted well to your position change last year, but Roth hasnt really done much to warrant a big fat contract that apparently he's after. shut up, play... then maybe we'll pay. Enough with this sense of entitlement crap. Of course... thats if thats the case here anyways.

Im frustrated tonight :lol: and this news is just ridiculous if true IMO.

Roth was put on the non football injury PUP, which means the dolphins don't have to pay his salary. On the regular PUP, the team is still responsible for the salary. Looks like the dolphins "one uped" Roth.

"emale2u1 wrote:

Roth was put on the non football injury PUP, which means the dolphins don't have to pay his salary. On the regular PUP, the team is still responsible for the salary. Looks like the dolphins "one uped" Roth.

That's awesome.

This is beginning to look more and more about the 5th year itch.....

Roth was drafted in a class when it almost became common to sign a 5 year deal. I remember longer rookie contracts being a hot topic a year earlier after the 2004 draft. The talk was that teams started demanding longer terms in 2002-2003 for all the money players were receiving in their draft contracts. I think Spielman signed everyone of the draft picks to a 5 year deals in 2004.

I remember thinking that the players who were taking the deals were betting against their own success in the league when they took the early money. A couple years later you had morons like Anquan Boldin signing bad deals two years and three years into their original bad deal. I think it was Travis Henry who had wasted all of his original contract to the point that he was on a year to year "resign" schedule just to get him enough money to make it through the season. It's a "resign" schedule that I think Ricky Williams is currently under.

The long and short of this situation (if it's a contract situation) is it's a bad deal all around the draft table. The teams are paying too much money up front. The players are taking too long a contract to receive that money up front. The NFL has got to get on top of the draft process. Rookie contracts are creating havoc with teams throughout the league.

Unbelievable. If this is true, Matt Roth is seriously ****ing up. I would have expected more from him. I didn't think he was that type of player. I guess I was wrong.

Not to mention that if he winds up on IR all season, he's gonna lose guaranteed money on his next contract. If he just did his job and busted his butt this season, he could have pulled in a premium deal... or got an extension offer from the Phins.

Man... I am just disappointed. :pity:

"emale2u1 wrote:

Roth was put on the non football injury PUP, which means the dolphins don't have to pay his salary. On the regular PUP, the team is still responsible for the salary. Looks like the dolphins "one uped" Roth.

If this truely is only about money, my hats off to this front office and coaching staff... again

TBH, with the play of Moses and Taylor, I forgot all about Roth. And with the way he is treating this situation, he may be gone soon.

"Ashraf wrote:

TBH, with the play of Moses and Taylor, I forgot all about Roth. And with the way he is treating this situation, he may be gone soon.

Problem is that Q and JT are both more of a puss rusher kind, less of a run stuffer, while Roth was a great edge setter last year.

Im not really sure of Roths contract so im wondering?

Does the possibility of a uncapped yr coming up play into this at all?

To be fair, there are always two sides to this story.

Perhaps there is pressure for Roth to play hurt, but he knows darned well it's a huge long-term risk for him to do so with his groin and so he would want more money if he is going to risk being able to even GET a big contract two years from now (as I assume no new CBA would extend him automatically with us, no?).

Or, perhaps Roth's doctors have told him his groin will only last a couple years at a high level and then he'll have trouble maintaining his health, so his payday will have to come now or never. Obviously he wouldn;t publicly say "My body is gonna be shot in two years) or no one would pay him on a new contract. So instead he tries to get a new deal now, while he still has enough ability and health.

No matter how you look at it, I think this stems from a concern over the long term health of his groin and body and risk versus the level of reward he'd be paid by the Dolphins right now.

I am not saying it's right, but Roth must have reasons of his own that motivate him. We just don;t understand them or know what they are.

Maybe if we knew we'd be less judgemental of him.

Or maybe we'd still think he's being greedy and unappreciative.

I believe he is a Free Agent after this year... IF there is a new CBA, which seems unlikely. With no new CBA I believe his rookie contract effectively gets stretched another year. That would mean playing two more years on his bad groin and hoping to still have a high market value afterwards.

I don;t think Roth is confident his body will hold up if he plays through this injury. That's my opinion. he thinks he'll be risking his long term health for a low salary, and potentially risking being able to be healthy enough in two years to even get a decent payday.

That's the only thing that makes sense to me here.

"siciliansith wrote:

Does the possibility of a uncapped yr coming up play into this at all?

It should not have anything to do with it. He is scheduled to make 700,000 for playing the 2009 season. He scheduled to be a free agent in 2010 - the uncapped year.

Yea I told yall this when I heard Omar Kelly on Big O's show on Sat Morning. It has to do with this being a contract year for him and Jason Taylor's presence. He knew Taylor coming in here would reduce his playing time and take snaps away from him, hurting his production which would then hurt his value come Free Agency time.

If Roth is playing games with management, he's going to find out Parcells and Ireland are not people you want to mess with. If he has a possible career 3ending groin injury like Duhe, then I'd just as soon see us trade him now and get something for him while he still has some value. Send him to Oakland for a first round pick. :lol:

I'm not expecting Matt Roth to play this year. Depending on the play of Jason Taylor and Quentin Moses, I wouldn't expect Matt Roth back next year either.

He's a fine player to stop the run on 1st and 2nd down, but this whole mess smells of deceit and shadiness.

If we have an uncapped year, you need six years of service to become an unrestricted free agent. I'm not sure how that works out for 5th year players with expiring contracts (I believe they become restricted free agents). But they will not be UFA's.

As mentioned earlier, I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle. Roth has never been a guy to not play. He's always been a warrior and a hard worker. I believe he's not 100 percent. But his contract status and long-term situation is playing a part in the situation, absolutely.

There are plenty of examples of guys coming back early....from any number of injuries....and never being the same. Talking to Keith Sims last year, he spoke about how he ended his career in Washington. That he had a partially torn Achilles that obviously should have kept him out awhile. But once the coaches got a look at his backups, it was clear they were in trouble without him. So Keith went back in there. He didn't practice the rest of the year and shot up the final 12 games of his season. He ended up rupturing the Achilles in December and never played again.

Keith says he could have played another 3 years had he not done what he did. He cites the unspoken mentality between players. That you just go out there and man up for your teammates. Perhaps if he was in his his 5th (like Roth) rather than his 11th he'd have made a different choice.

The point being, guys are expected to play thru injuries. But as soon as you're hurt, you're not good to anyone anymore. It's plainly obvious with this regime. "If you're not out there by Tuesday, we're going in another direction".

It's a cold business and players have to look out for themselves. It's one thing if Roth isn't hurt and is simply holding out. But it's another if he is hurt and is worried about putting his career on the line when he's close to cashing in. That's where the agent protects the player from the team.

Sims also told me about what happened in prior to leaving the Dolphins.

Back in 1995 -- Shula's last season -- Keith played thru another bad injury (Turf Toe?, I can't remember). And the reason he did was because Shula -- who, like most other former players, he reveres -- promised to take care of him in the offseason.

Well, 1996 rolls around and Jimmy Johnson is now coach, GM, dictator. And he begins picking off Shula's players. Sims was supposed to get a new contract in exchange for playing thru injury. Obviously that is off the table now. "You didn't play so well last year," said Jimmy.

Matt Roth played hurt last year. To what extent and how much the staff knew about it is anyone's guess. But Roth has had groin problems going back to 2007. He played thru it in '08 while learning a new position, had surgery in January and apparently (IMO) is still having trouble with it.

He's in a contract year. His first contract year. It's a difficult situation.

OT: It is Is there any question this regime would cast him aside once his groin was done 'for good'?

You know, I don't think Roth is holding out. I just don't see how he gains anything by pretending to be injured.

A lot of pro athletes have clauses that forbid certian activities (i.e. riding motorcycles, playing another sport etc.) "I think" Roth was doing something his contract did not allow and he lied about it when he came to camp. I think that is why the front office is pissed at him.

I'm sure he's not pretending by any stretch...The question is how bad is the injury ?? The question is, was it really bad enough to keep him from attending camp or was it only bad enough for him to attempt to make his point to the organization that he should have his contract extended before this season ??

I don't know the answer, I just see this whole situation as more than what it appears to be...there are too many unanswered questions.