Would love Jim Harbaugh. His defenses were elite, like top 3 level in 3 out of 4 years. He'll also need to find the right QB, but even with Kap he was getting just outside top 10 in points scored. We'll see what happens.

 

Harbaugh isn't a defensive coach, that was largely due to Vic Fangio. I wouldn't be surprised if he brought his college DC along this time, Mike McDonald, former Ravens LB coach.

 

Harbaugh isn’t coming to Miami. He would want more control than Grier is willing to give.

Now if you hear that the Dolphins have fired Chris Grier, then everyone can start speculating.

 

This is the only scenario where I see us upgrading at HC.

 

You have taken crazy pills. Grier gives away a lot of control. That is what a lot of people are complaining about him.

 

I do think Harbaugh would demand the final say. I wouldn't be stunned if Ross and Grier were ok with it.

If one wants to be conspiracy minded, it's even a good way for Grier to cover his tracks. He could just blame Harbaugh for any misses. :chuckle:

Harbaugh for sure has a good but not incredible offer on the table from UM that he is holding off on signing. The rumors still posit that he is interested in seeing if Mark Davis makes him a Gruden-esque offer. I'd be surprised if he is demanding to come here though, but might give Ross the option to top either the UM or a potential Raider offer before accepting one or the other.

 

I would love Harbaugh but it seems the NFL is going towards a youth movement. But by all means, go get Harbaugh.

 

Flores had final say. The rumor is that he wanted more control over contracts

 

That’s the only reason I’ll be ok with the decision they made. Otherwise they’re the idiots I think they are.

 

The only thing that would excite me is Pederson and I think that they are idiots already until proven otherwise...

 

Maybe there wasn't a formal plan in place, but I have a feeling that Ross's plans were to get Harbaugh all along. And when I say "all along", I mean before Flores and even Gase was hired. I'm getting the vibe that this plan has been in play for a very long time and it played a part in Flores being let go.

 

I honestly believe we have to hire Harbaugh or this franchise has no shot at becoming elite. I will explain below

It’s easy actually. There is no other coach that Ross would give full control to outside Harbaugh. Ross is so in love with the guy that he might be the only one able to wrestle away power from Grier! If Harbaugh wants said player and Grier tries to override there will be a power struggle and Ross would probably side with Jim.

Grier however probably knows the love Ross has for Jim and doesn’t want him anywhere near the team as he would lose considerable leverage in building the team.

As fans if we want a winning team we need to get Harbaugh here and take away griers power.

 

What makes you think Harbaugh is better than Grier at talent eval? What makes you think Grier didn't already let Flores have final say on draft/roster choices? What if some of the less productive and popular picks were actually Flores guys?

 

Compare pre-Harbaugh to with-Harbaugh and post-Harbaugh in SF.

In the 4 years prior to Harbaugh the average rank by points scored was 24. In the 4 years with Harbaugh it was 14.5. Then in the 4 years after it sank to 25 again. Clear improvement.

It's even more impressive on defense. In the 4 years pre-Harbaugh the average rank by points allowed was 15.75. With Harbaugh it shot way up to an average rank of 4.25!!! Then in the 4 years post-Harbaugh it fell way back down to 25.75.

You can't look at stats like that and say Harbaugh wasn't a major factor. This guy is proven, and he did it without an elite QB. Not sure how realistic it is to get Harbaugh but if it's possible to get him you jump on that ship right away.

 

I don't know if I necessarily buy that website on it's own merits(given no one else has corroborated it yet), but I think this is interesting:



The Dolphins front office was in San Francisco this week, but the thing is that the Mike McDaniel interview was not an in-person interview:



Jim Harbaugh however does have a house in the area, and I could see if this is true that he'd be inclined to be interested somewhere it isn't going to create a huge media distraction.

 

Let’s compare Flores and pre-Flores drafts. The 2013 and 2017 drafts come to mind as complete miss drafts. That’s one of the problems with Miami. You can’t have 2 drafts in a 5 year window with no productive starters. Now factor in that Flores walked into that mess and somehow eeked out 5 wins. Never mind the fact that in Griers 14 years he hasn’t managed to find a franchise QB.

I’m not saying Flores didn’t have things that needed to improve but let’s be honest, he jumped into a poker hand with an unsuited 8-2 and still managed to win.

 

Grier also hired Marvin Allen and Reggie McKenzie in 2019.

Also, what exactly did you think Grier has done with the team in the last 14 years? Y'all would blame the janitor just because he works for the Dolphins.

 

Well he’s been Director of Scouting and/or GM for 14 years. Our organization has sucked over that time frame. The players have changed, the coordinators have changed and the head coaches have changed. Why do we continue to suck?

 

Because of the coaching hires for the last 14 years. They all have sucked.

That is putting a lot of Grier. Basically just looking for a scapegoat.

 

That and you can’t completely miss on drafts. And you can’t do it in 2 drafts over a 5 year period. And if you don’t find a franchise QB, it’s hard to sustain success in the NFL.

 

2013 was Jeff Ireland, not Chris Grier. 2017 is fair, though iirc didn't Gase make the final calls (as did Flores)?

But what you are doing is making assumptions that Grier is the root of all of our problems, going all the way back to times when he was a lower level employee. Just because he has been part of the organization doesn't automatically mean he is the problem.

 

Franchise has only one constant since it was sold to Ross and that’s him.

That’s were the blame goes IMHO he hasn’t seemed to find quality people to run things for him

 

Id assume the director of college scouting has some influence over who we draft. He’s not the only person I blame but he’s definitely part of the problem.

 

You can probably make this same argument for at least half the teams in the league though. I think we want to dismiss the idea that luck is as big a factor in selecting the right coach/QB as it is. You basically need to luck into the right guys and then catch a break or two along the way.

Look at Cinci. They have been trash for a long time, Zac Taylor was on the hot seat and then they suck enough to draft Burrow and then nab Chase. But it's not just about that, it's about catching the Steelers on the downturn of the Ben era, the Ravens and Browns with QB injury and inconsistency.

You want another consistency in the Ross era? It's the New England Patriots being the dominant force they were.

 

Of course he has some influence, but it was still Ireland who decided Dion Jordan was not just worth drafting, but giving up all those picks for. That wasn't a Grier call. And for a first round pick, it is absolutely 100% that Ireland was heavily and directly involved in the scouting and review. It was Ireland in the meetings and dinners with Jordan. It was Ireland who missed the issues that kept the athletic ability that the whole league saw from actually manifesting.

 

All these questions about who was primarily responsible for which pick aren't as important as seeing systematic improvement after you change GMs (or HCs or QBs etc.). Where's the improvement under Grier? On average our offense has been ranked 22nd by points scored and the defense 20th by points allowed under Grier. After 6 years there should be SOME systematic improvement. None.

There's no excuse for that. He should've been fired for presiding over a period where we saw no systematic improvement in offense, defense, win% or playoff appearances.

 

You're trying to blame luck, and anybody but Grier, who has been the one constant. Grier has had a big influence on our terrible drafting and personnel decisions since at least 2007, so he is at the very least a big part of the problem.

 

Grier has his fair share of misses and frankly I thought he should have been removed. I was a fan of the idea of moving him into some executive function and effectively handing over personnel/draft to Marvin Allen.

I just think a lot of fans - Miami and in general - have very insular thinking without realizing that their situation is, in fact, not uniquely horrendous but actually extremely common. Perhaps even more the rule than the exception. And in the end, lucking into the right coach and/or QB are the only ways out.

 

There’s too many misses with him as GM and DoCS.

We had 3 1st round picks in 2020. Two were complete misses and one was a whiff in the sense that we passed on a pro bowl QB, drafted a QB that can’t stay healthy and is too limited to ever really do anything. Davis and Hunt are solid starters but you can’t have 5 picks in the first 2 rounds of the one of the best drafts in recent history and have so many misses. Then you look at 2017, 2013 and you start seeing a pattern.

You want to spread some of the blame. Sure, I agree. But if Flores doesn’t deserve his job then Grier sure as hell doesn’t either.

 

If Flores was fired primarily for talent identification then sure, but that doesn't seem the issue. In short, he was fired for being a difficult to worth with bleephole who Grier and Ross thought wouldn't be able to build or hold onto an effective staff or develop players (especially on offense). Maybe they were wrong, maybe not. That book will probably be written.

 

It's ****ing baffling why people on here continue to go to the mat to defend Grier. WTF

 

I'm not, I just don't ascribe to the sky is falling mentality that so many here do. But people are so far up their feels they can't see the forest for the trees.