I'm a firm believer in being forgiven for what you've done if you do your time and change as a person.

From what I know he hasn't been in trouble since and for all we know his perspective bhas changed.

What he did was terrible but it's a football event and I have no issue with him there.

 

I worked as a journalist back when this story broke and researched it in-depth. I'm about 90% sure Michael Vick had zero involvement with the dog-fighting other than it being at one of his properties.

 

Cool if we let Jared from Subway start doing commercials again once he gets out?

Just making sure your logic is consistent.

 

Not to compare sins, but I'm pretty sure pedophilia is a lot worse than dog fighting.

 

I don't care about what's worse to you. I want to know if he's consistent in his belief that everyone should be forgiven if they've "done their time and changed as a person", or if murdering dogs is on the forgivable side of the arbitrary moral line he's drawn in his head.

 

You watch the Pro Bowl? lol

 

Right??? Hahahaha!!!!!! wow...

 

Hes got a TV contract with FOX, has been on pro bowl events before this and even participated in the NFL’s flag football league. Also had a second chances on the Eagles. Youre a little late to be mad.

 

So, murdering or even supporting the murdering of dogs for low life imbeciles to watch and bet on is forgivable. However, Flores, a stand up high character guy, who, if for nothing else, took a team loaded with cast offs and UDFAs, etc, etc, and beat and embarrassed that little bug eyed fool in Adam Gase and the Jets, you want fired and disgusts you as a human being because you don't like the way he speaks at press conferences? Oooooo.k, Phin fan. Good to see you have your priorities straight. :up:

 

I thought it was wrong to let Vick re-enter the league after his convictions. However the decision has been made, my getting angry won’t change it, but doing so will make me unhappy. Signing any online petition is 99.99% useless so I won’t waste my time doing it.

I agree with Puka-head’s position but since getting angry and taking action online-
(a) won’t achieve anything productive
(b) won’t improve the quality of others around me, and
(c) won’t improve my life
I will let this one slide.

 

I signed it, because that POS and his cronies get no forgiveness from me.

 

That wouldnt make my logic consistent or inconsistent to agree or disagree.

Though yes, if he gets out of jail and is no longer a pedophile AND someone wants to hire him for a commercial he should be legally allowed to.

Now, it would never happen nor would I support Subway. However, I wouldn't impede his right to a living in terms of saying he has less legal right to earn a wage.

If you dont want people living normal lives after prison, give them a life sentence which is what he should be serving.

Edit Add On: Mainly this opinion is because I believe in rehabilitation vs punishment after and during a sentence. People, criminal or otherwise, need tools to deal with their negative aspects because it benefits us as a society. Releasing someone and treating them like a criminal forever does nothing for them or society as a whole.

 

I answered your question in another post. However, you should realize that all logic has limits and it isnt an inconsistency to compartmentalize different acts of different severity into different rule sets.

 

If you want me to be honest, what bothers me about Flores isnt him so much as the fan base reaction to his accomplishing nothing yet.

I supported his hire and even call him an average coach. Like I said what ticks me off about him now is the people here saying he is some coaching saviour. He isnt or at the very least has shown nothing of value yet. This thread isnt about him though.

 

Wait, what? The NFL has a Pro Bowl game?

 

Also...I believe a rehabilitated pedophile should still be able to work and live their life. Now, I wouldn't think it appropriate, rehabilitated or not, for Jared to work at a daycare facility. I don't necessarily have a problem with Vick being involved with the Pro Bowl. Vicks NFL employment had nothing to do with the dog fighting. I mean, if we're kicking people out of the NFL for being degenerates, let's start with the guys who are beating women and children, or killing people while driving drunk, or just straight up murdering people. I love animals. But animals are not people.

We don't start with animal abuse while allowing worse criminals in the league.

 

This.

 

A lot of people seem to equate "living life" or "second chance" with "being allowed to be as famous/rich/prevalent as they used to be" which is, imo, silly.

He can have his "second chance" working at Home Depot or whatever.

 

It's not really a second chance if you're restricting their ability to get a job. Essentially you want punishments to be lifelong.

 

Living life as a normal person instead of a famous person after horrible crimes is a punishment? Hmm.

 

Who said anything about kicking him out of the league? Let him fade away into obscurity , instead of promoting/celebrating a known scumbag. The same goes for any of the many dirtbags who have played in this league. Celebrate the good guys.

 

I love dogs and would never harm an animal but on the same token I'm not going to judge Vick or get worked up over something he did 15 years ago and that may have been culturally acceptable given where he came from.

Different cultures have different ideas when it comes to animals, heck if it was cockfighting would the outcry had been the same?

Vick paid his debt to society and I have no problem with that NFL making him a Pro Bowl captain.

 

Personally, I think anybody who does that stuff to dogs is straight trash. If he's learned his lesson...TRULY learned how wrong what he was doing was, then carry on.

Now...pedophiles, rapists, murderers on the other hand? Death penalty...period. There is no "rehabilitated" for those types...not in my book.

 

Too bad our criminal justice system convicts way too many innocents to make your proposal feasible.

 

I will never stop being upset that the NFL and its media partners have embraced Dog Killer, and turned a blind eye to the horrors that he participated in and signed off on.

This does not mean that I excuse any other criminals who have been allowed back into the league. The league just put a guy who was involved in a murder on their 100th anniversary team, so off field issues don't seem to be much of a problem for them, sadly.

 

The problem with Vick was that he found new ways to torture dogs to death when they weren't good fighters. Drowning, electrocution, hanging, etc. That's why he's scum.

But honestly, and I know people are going to freak out and flame me for this, but truth is truth......participating in dog fighting because you enjoy watching it is no more or less bad than eating meat/dairy because you enjoy the flavor. In both instances, animals suffer for your enjoyment.

And no, you don't need meat and dairy to survive or be healthy...in fact, there's new info coming out every day that it is quite the opposite.

 

Sure it would, based on your choice of phrasing:

This implies an applicable forgiveness to everyone who meets said criteria. If Jared (X) meets criteria (Z) and is not forgiven for action (A), while Michael (Y) meets criteria (Z) and is forgiven for action (B), we have a logical inconsistency--not based on compartmentalized moral lines in relation to severity of offence--but in relation to, again, your choice of words.

Thankfully, you remained consistent and asserted that X be forgiven just the same as Y, regardless of differing actions. This is consistent with your original notion.

What we are left with is a divergence in opinion on whether or not severe offences are forgivable, which is fine and a highly debatable topic.

However, you should note a difference between forgiveness of the people and forgiveness of the polis. Of course individuals should retain basic rights after completing recovery and fulfilling the obligations set unto them by the legal system per their punishment. I'm not sure why you wrote several paragraphs about this, as I never specifically mentioned or implied otherwise.

I simply believe that some degrees of offence are too heinous to forgive on a human level.

 

Signed and shared.

 

No problem man. Absolutely deplore animal cruelty on any level. I hear what other people are saying about reformation of character but, from my own personal point of view, Vick is a POS for doing what he did and I could never forgive or forget.

 

I don’t give a crap about the Pro Bowl anymore. It’s turned into nothing more than a glorified flag football game. It’s not FOOTBALL

 

Not true at all really being Ketogenic Diets and research is coming out on those which are mainly meat diets but that is a different subject altogether I am big on and participate/research on. I agree what he did or his people did with those Dogs is very inhumane though, just terrible.......

 

Did I ever say one thing about dogs? Did I express one opinion either in favor or opposition to Vick's participation in the Pro Bowl? Did I express one opinion at all about Vick himself?

The omission of an opinion is not an endorsement. The only opinion I offered was the Pro Bowl is a ***JOKE*** anymore and I don't give a CRAP about it.