I think Suh is more of a legend already. JT was good, but he didn't dominate, destroy or strike fear in opponents like Suh does.

 

Suh may surpass JT at some point , but he hasn't as of yet . If / when he does let's hope he does it as a Fin .

 

Oh, he will. Suh isn't injury prone and is a different calibre player (quality-wise) than JT. Only thing JT has over Suh is the body of work, as you point out.

 

The 6th all time career sacks leader didn't dominate? Oh boy.

 

I know right....sometimes people make me wonder...Lol....JT was not only a great Dolphin, he was respected throughout the league.

 

I don't think JT is on most people's list of greatest DE's of all time (say top 10). Suh has a chance to end up as one of the best DT's of all time. Yeah, I don't think they're in the same class talent-wise. Only thing JT has over Suh is the overall production. It's fine to disagree, but that's what I think.

 

Yup, but was he feared as much as Suh?

 

All time NFL leader for returned fumbles for TD's as well . Suh has to play many more years at the level he has to be considered better than JT career wise imo .

 

I respect 99 as much as anybody. But be real.Are we talking about whom is the scariest? If 99 came after me I might think I had a chance. If Suh was after me I would curl up in a ball and pee myself.


And then spend the next 3 months setting up my shot...but let's hope that happens way after we beat the Shehacks to win the Super Bowl thus putting them squarely on the path to beating the Bills in number of consecutive Super Bowl losses.

 

You honestly don't think JT is top 10 defensive end of all time? A former DPOtY, member of the 00's all decade team, and future HOF not feared and dominate? Injury prone? Are we talking about the same player? Outside of JT's twilight years, none of those statements can be supported IMO.

 

If you look at most lists of greatest DE's in history, JT's nowhere near the top 10. The problem for me is I don't know half (or more) of the guys on those lists so if I just listed the ones I know JT probably would make it, but that's more because of lack of knowledge on my part regarding all those DE's from decades ago than anything else.

Put it this way. JJ Watt and Suh are often talked about as 1a and 1b in terms of best defensive players today. Both can take over games. I lived through JT's entire career and I NEVER saw JT take over game after game in the way JJ Watt (and to a lesser degree Suh) does.

And before you guys go off too much on VanDolPhan's post acting like I said "JT doesn't dominate", keep in mind the quote was JT doesn't dominate like Suh does. And yeah I stand by that statement. Of course.. all this is just opinion so don't take it too seriously.

Oh.. and "not injury prone" referred only to Suh.

 

Wow, how can you forget JT's DPOY season, he took over plenty of games, most notably that one against the Bears who, IIRC, were undefeated at the time.. the guy singlehandedly won us that game.

 

I guess I don't understand what you mean when you say, JT doesn't dominant like Suh does. In what way are you referring. I asked before and I'll ask again. Are we talking about the same JT?

From 2000-2010, JT lead the NFL in sacks, INT, forced fumbles, TD's. JT's most impressive record? Forced fumbles. JT is the NFL's all-time forced fumble leader (46). Simply put, not only did he get after the QB better than anyone of his generation, he was a turnover machine and a game changer. Jason Taylor had a 7 year stretch (00-07), in which he was as dominant a lineman as anyone in history. And versatile too. He could lineup anywhere on the front 7 and rush the passer. Pro Football Reference has his AV (approximate value) rated top 50 all-time. Only 4 DE's rank ahead of him (Reggie White, Bruce Smith, Michael Strahan, and one old school player).

And like all great defensive players, coaches had to scheme specifically for him and adjust their offense around him. Not only did he manage to outproduce every defensive lineman of his generation in spite of that, he was also a king maker. Miami had a lot of success lining up average DE's opposite of JT, who dramatically over produced based on their natural ability. Mixon, Bromell, O-Gun.

Put it to you this way... If I could have 28 year old Suh vs. 28 year old Jason Taylor over the same years as Suh signed for, I'm taking Jason Taylor. He was '5 tool player' to borrow a baseball analogy. And an incredible one at that.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. There's no way we can see eye on this topic.

 

Yeah, I DEFINITELY remember JT taking over games. Seems like it was a Cincinnati game @ Cincy and the Phins were pulling their typical lollygagging bullchit - desperately needed a win and JT got a strip fumble that he scooped up for a TD before half - turned the entire game for us. God, how many times did I see him get a strip fumble late in games?

If you're talking about just physically fearing someone due to intimidation by size / power - maybe you have a point, but not as far as productivity.

 

I think some individuals on here underestimate how great a player JT was. He was a player who could dominate at his position and he was able to play LB as well as DE. He was named the best defensive player of the year during his career and he was a player other teams had to be concerned with on every offensive snap they took.

While Suh has every opportunity to turn out to be the best defensive tackle in Dolphin history if he continues to play at the same level he did with the Lions. I have been fortunate enough to watch the Dolphins since their inception in 1966 and to me, JT so far has been the best overall defensive player the Dolphins have ever had over an entire career.

 

Add to that a League Defensive MVP

 

lol coincidentally a 50yr commerative book came in the mail today and the 1st player in the book is jason Taylor. he wrote the forward. im not a big fan of his but as a player the guy was phenominal.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

Well I guess we just disagree on this one.. no big deal.

But to address some of the points, you can be a less dominant DE than Jason Taylor for opposing coaches to game plan against you. Same goes for "taking over games", or to have a synergistic effect on other players on the D-line/defense. In all these cases the question isn't whether it happens per se, but the degree of dominance/fear the person strikes in the opponent (as perceived by whoever is observing the game since this is all just opinion) and the consistency.

When someone says they'd rather have an in-prime JT than an in-prime Suh, that's when I know we see things differently.

As I said, the overall production issue is the only area where I see JT>Suh. So let's imagine Suh doing what he's done for another 4-5 years. How many here would seriously put JT above Suh? I definitely would not. Or if JJ Watt does what he's done another 4-5 years, who here would seriously put JT>Watt? Again, I wouldn't. Suh and Watt could realistically end up near the very top of the all-time greatest at their positions, where JT just isn't considered that way by most.

Finally, none of what I'm saying is dissing JT, unlike what some responses here seem to be suggesting. You compare a great player to an even greater player and the great player just doesn't look that great in comparison.

 

no your saying suh is a much better player than jt which is not true. jt was a game changer, players feared him not because he might stomp on them but because he was talented enough to change the game evertime he stepped on the field. you seem to be dismissing that.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

A lot of players are talented enough to change the game each time they step on the field. Doesn't mean there isn't a difference in degree. And Suh isn't considered the best DT over the last 4-5 years (consistently I might add) because he stomps on players.

 

They are not in competition with each other.
When Taylor was here it was great to have him.
Now that Suh is here. I think we will all be glad he is here.

 

Fair enough. But you're talking about Jason Taylor. Taylor isn't another face face in the crowd. Jason Taylor is one of the most accomplished defensive players of all-time. Most dominant DE of his era. A former Defensive Player of the Year. NFL record holder. A future first ballot Hall of Famer. When you say, "A lot of players are talented enough to change the game each time they step on the field." It comes across as dismissive of Taylor's immense achievements and career, even if that isn't your intention. I'm done with this thread as I'm beating a dead horse. I'm fine w/anyone believing Suh to be a better player. That's subjective and as Paul said, they play different positions. But JT deserves his due and I think you're underestimating what a force he was in the NFL.

 

Yeah, didn't mean anything I've said in this thread to be dismissive of JT, so hopefully you can interpret what I wrote knowing that.

I'll say this though: even if they are both similar in ability, I think Suh's style of play will sear him in the memory of average NFL fans/historians (not just Dolphin fans) far more than JT. When you talk about legends, you have to think about what sticks in memory too.

 

IMO they'll both end up first ballot HOFs, although Suh will be helped by his SB rings. :shifty:

 

You must have been sleeping when Miami played the Bears in 2006. JT absolutely dominated that game. Seriously, as a Dolphins fan, do yourself a favor and watch that game. I wish I could see it again for the first time, lucky you.

 

Never said JT never dominated a game. I said I didn't see him do that in the same way or (in this case) as consistently as Suh does.

 

Believe JT is #1 or #2 in forced fumbles as well

 

As great as Suh is, has he even taken over a game as Watt or JT has? Honest question.

They have different jobs, but to say you've never seen JT dominate a game like Suh does, which games are that? I mean, when you look at JT's 2005, with 74 combined tackles, 12 sacks, 9 passes defended, 4 FF, or the next year with 60 tackles, 13 sacks, 9 passes defended, 2 TDs!

 

They have different jobs is the real answer to your question. Stats comparisons aren't going to help much because of that.

Suh clogs up the middle in the run game and provides a threat to the QB from the DT position on a consistent basis (not just across games but throughout the game). It totally changes the complexion of the defense you're playing against. And while I can't prove it, I just think Suh helps the rest of the defense out more than JT did. JT in my opinion was one of several key components to a very good Miami defense, but nowhere near as integral to it as Suh has been to Detroit's defense. Is it true? Who knows, but that's what I mean by him "dominating" consistently in a way JT didn't.

 

Sheeeeit...you ain't never seen JT donkey-stomp a fool like the Suh Man!!

;)

 

If Suh = Taylor than Suh > Taylor cuz Taylor was a jet.


Yeah, Im gonna hold that against him for ever.

 

LOL.. that one's hard to beat.

 

Although he deserves it, I'll be very surprised if JT makes the HOF on the first ballot. I think the no Superbowl's and lack of playoff wins will be stupidly held against him.

Same goes for Zach, his body of work is almost comparable to JT's yet it wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't even make the HOF at all (which would be a travesty).

 

Love it. Forum Members are disagreeing if JT was greater than Suh is or will be. The great JT dominated in aqua and orange (despite this short Jets faux pas) and the great Suh will dominate the next years in aqua and orange. Man there were times we faced bigger Problems.

 

First of all ZT is "the" defensive legend and second of all ZT is the defensive legend.

 

Respectfully...I don't think anyone was comparing who is greater. At least I certainly wasn't. Suh is a fantastic intimidating mofo and all but he isn't in the same league as JT....YET!

The question was...who is scarier? Personally, If I won the Mega Millions Jackpot and could hire whoever I wanted to walk my baby girlz to school and it was between JT and Suh? Duh!

JT was a phenomenal football player and a future HOFer in my never been humble opinion. But Suh is a bad *** mean sob and I kinda like that too.

 

I think it'll be close. The sack numbers are so big for DEs and OLBs that it'll help him. He's sixth all-time. He also is the all-time leader in fumble returns for TDs. And he did win the NFL defensive player of the year. IMO being one of the best of your era should be the primary criteria for HOF induction and JT clearly was. I agree that the lack of a SB hurts a ton. If he had a SB win then I think he'd be a lock as a first ballot HOFer. Team accomplishments shouldn't be part of the criteria for an individual award, but people can't separate or evaluate individuals so they are.

As much as I love ZT, I don't think his resume will be as compelling. His main distinguishing stat is his high tackle number, but that doesn't get the pub that sack numbers get. He made a ton of pro bowls but even while he played he never got the love as the best in the game. I recall often arguing with people about Ray Lewis and Urlacher, etc. I imagine that now that he's out of the game he'll be forgotten more often (by non-Dolphin fans) among the best LBs of that era. And obviously he has the same SB deficit as JT.

 

Stats aside I tend to hold up MLB or inside linebacker as the more important position on the defense over a defensive end since it tends to be the leadership position on D. I think while ZT might not be given his due compared to the likes of Urlacher I highly doubt he'll be forgotten. For one thing our AFC east rivals still get migraines on Tuesday mornings from some of their encounters with Zach. He is pretty well respected around knowledgeable fans league-wide to be honest.