http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1821684-analyzing-a-key-play-in-miamis-week-7-loss-to-buffalo
A lot of this is stuff that I've already talked about in here, but in a number of threads.
I just cleaned it up a little bit and posted some more pictures.
Short story short, that play was doomed for a number of reasons.
1. Tyson Clabo screwed up against one of the best defensive ends in football.
2. If Tyson Clabo didn't get Ryan Tannehill hit during his throw, Daniel Thomas would have done the same.
3. The check from a run to a pass at the line has been questionably defended by the coaching staff, as Miami clearly did NOT check from a run to a pass on the previous play even though Buffalo gave the same exact defensive look.
4. The Dolphins had shown the Bills defense their tendencies enough that the receivers were covered on the play and the ball may have even been picked off, especially if Tannehill was hit by Daniel Thomas as he threw the ball.
It's just one play but there's a lot going on, and it kind of exemplifies some of the issues going on with both the talent and the coaching of the team.
I wanted to also feature the pick-6 play as I feel Miami has tipped off that tendency as well but I didn't have time.
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dirtywhiteboy, gunn34, muscle979 and 8 others like this.
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Looking at that play from that angle Tannehill had room to move up in the pocket to extend the play feeling pressure from the outside. I realize that he only had a split second to react but its something he needs to improve on. Great write up,
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I do not think it is cut and dry that Daniel Thomas would have gotten Tannehill hit.
I also do not understand your point with number 3.
If the pass was to throw a floater to Clay than that play could have been successful for a huge gain even with Clabo's terrible, terrble blocking on that play. -
In your opinion WHY is there issues? Here is my chicken or the egg question.......
Is it lack of talent causing the staff to coach differently?
or....
Is the staff not utilizing the talent on the field to the best of their ability?
I struggle with this question alot, mostly Sundays around 4:05PM, because IMO there is lots of talent on this team.....but they look so bad at times....
Just confused this year all around for me, didn't expect this.....Oboy likes this. -
I think the video makes it pretty cut and dried that Thomas lands right on Tannehill's side before he would have been able to get the football out of his hands.
As for point #3, the point was that you can't take refuge in the rationale that we checked into a pass because the Bills were stacking an 8 man box and we always pass against that, when the play immediately before that was a run against the exact same stacked 8-man box. The decision to pass the ball was a decision, not a reaction to the Buffalo defense. It was a play-call. And quite probably, the wrong one. -
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Given what Tannehill wanted to do on this play, his timing and position were right. If he'd delayed the throw long enough to step up into the pocket he probably gets intercepted.
Clay was open and that's who he should have hit on the play. But this is where you see that repetitiveness and predictability are inherent to both the offensive design as well as the quarterback executing within it.
Truthfully I'm starting to think Tannehill won't become what he could be until he gets away from Mike Sherman.Bpk likes this. -
Looks like he is winding up in the pictures. Which is why it is a fumble.
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In that split second the ball could be gone. I just don't agree that it is cut and dry that it would have been a hit that would have effected the throw. It would have been a hit, that is for sure.
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My question is why is the check play to a pass with 8 defenders in the box a play that requires the WRs to run 10 yards down the sideline and then break
Why isn't either Wallace or Hartline running a slant?
Or, why does Ryan first look at Hartline and not Clay? Clay will either be open quickly or not. Hartline or Wallace need about 2-2.5 seconds anywayOboy likes this. -
Former NFL scout and current NFL insider Louis Riddick just did a mini breakdown of Tannehill's play against the Bills on twitter and he didn't like what he saw from him. Called him robotic and unable to come off and find second and third options.
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MrClean and I were discussing that after the Saints game.
I agree that I'd like to see Joe Philbin take a more hands-on approach to the offense, if not call the plays outright like Sean Payton and defer to a defensive mind to run that side of the ball. Preferably someone better than Kevin Coyle, that is.Bpk likes this. -
I must give this the thread the.....
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If you watch Gruden's QB Camp with Tannehill, they pretty much tell you the deep and intermediate outside breaking comeback is a staple of Sherman's offense. Tannehill is money on routes that follow the concept and he loves it. I'm beginning to think it's the only route in the playbook with everything else being just get open. It's an incredibly difficult route to cover and it gives the QB the luxury to throw it low and away for an incompletion if things break down. The only issue is, in the NFL, if they know what's coming, these world class athletes can stop it. -
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In Green Bay, Philbin was involved with creating the concepts, teaching them to the players, and preparing them for the defense while McCarthy called the plays. His track record as an NFL play caller is scant and his open support for these play calls is either coachspeak, friendship with Sherman, or really scary relative to the prospect of Philbin calling plays. -
Good insight. That makes sense to a degree
Should we assume that Sherman figures that since they are keeping in 7 blockers there is no need for the WRs to run a hot route or "just get open route?"
I really don't know why he didn't throw it to Clay and or/seemingly not look at him -
I have started to lose a LOT of respect for Philibin.
He is defending poor play calls to the extent that it is not only costing us games but also potentially costing him his job soon.
And I can't blame him because thats what happens when you bring friends into a business to partner up, especially a business that has so much turnover. You go in together, and out of respect back one another until you both get fired. Unless you are Fireland that is, he is untouchable, Mr. Teflon. -
1. He determined Hartline would be open. Not sure he had time to look left then move to Clay, then move back to Hartline if Clay weren't open.
1a. Not sure he has a reason to even look elsewhere if he determined Hartline would be open.
2. Maybe he thought he didn't have time to move to Clay (or anyone else) and get a pass off even if he determined Hartline was not going to be open. If Hartline was covered, he may have just thrown it away (or ate it or whatever).maynard likes this. -
It's really as simple as this: Hartline is the player he trusts most to get open in man coverage. Not Mike Wallace. Not Charles Clay. Brian Hartline.
It looks like the route Clay runs is right up the seam to where Tannehill has to float the ball into the hole between the linebacker and safety coverage. He could have chose that, but it is a more difficult/dangerous throw. Had Clay been continuing his route left to right then he'd have broken into a wide open space, but there would be no guarantee that there wouldn't be underneath coverage on that side reading the quarterback and dropping into it.
It was a trust factor and Brian Hartline is the guy he trusts in that situation to get open against man coverage without the safety getting into the play.MAFishFan, , maynard and 1 other person like this. -
But the bottom line to me is you can only show a tendency so much before smart NFL defenders get a read on it. Perhaps a more instinctive play caller might have called a vertical concept for Hartline. Williams intentionally let himself trail Hartline by nearly two yards. By doing so he really does flirt with danger because what if Tannehill hits Brian in stride? Or worse, what if he hits the double move? Williams is taking a gamble, one he thinks he won't get burned for...but who knows? Williams may have underestimated Hartline's speed. That's happened before.
But when it came down to the crunch our offensive coordinator trusted a bread and butter concept that we'd run against that coverage several times during the game. And in the end we got burned because even though we were in max protect we couldn't give Tannehill time to hit ANY of the three targets.cuchulainn likes this. -
Thomas pass blocking was wrong technically in every way. Balance, position, feet and stance. He's 233lbs. Does he bench press in the weight room? I think his mind set needs sorting out. No way should he got shoved back like that. His whole technique was wrong from the snap.
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I'll try to answer both here.
I suppose I'm lacking some understanding here. Seems to me that with 8 in the box, the pass you would most likely be checking into would involve some sort of a quicker look, not an intermediate comeback. I suppose you could use Clay's route there for that, but I think Clay would be your first look. Doesn't seem like he did. It is a dangerous throw because of the safety if you don't get it off quickly I agree. IMO, Clay should be the first read.
I buy the idea that he trusts Hartline and that may be more important than anything else.
I don't want to tear this play apart because of watching a gif in hindsight 20 times, but the predictability of the routes and what the QB is going to do kinda bothers me -
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I meant to note his relationship with Hartline but completely spaced on it. Combining the offense's favorite route with the most reliable receiver is a recipe for a throw to Hartline.ckparrothead likes this. -
vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member
Re: Taking a Closer Look at 2nd & 8 versus Buffalo
If we were looking to throw during that drive...why wouldnt we do more bunch formations and stacking of the recievers?
Could the lack of a time out to use..also be a large factor here, limiting us to running plays we run alot, rather then being able to have the time to set something else up?
CK..Could it be that having Sherman as his OC the first year was really good..but...its also possible isnt it..that both get to set in tendencies and being forced to think outside the box never happpens?
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Well first off, Clay may very well have been the first read. Or actually the safety was likely the first thing Tannehill read on the play. You will notice on the Daniel Thomas GIF that Tannehill was looking straight ahead before he clicked to Hartline on the left.
You've really got to remember something though. You're talking about a pass over the short middle where Kiko Alonso lives and eats. And in fact, Alonso on that play is buzzing RIGHT INTO the passing lane Tannehill would be throwing if he hit the quick seam route to Clay.
Clay might have been the first read but that doesn't mean he was the final choice. The choice here if everything went how Tannehill thought it was going to go (which it did) was to progress through and throw to his favorite receiver in single coverage on a route he's gotten open on hundreds of times.
You mention that with 8 in the box you would think a quicker pass would be the first option. That depends on where the quickest route is going to get open. In this case it's the short middle which is cluttered full of bodies because there were 8 in the box. So maybe that's not such a good idea after all.maynard likes this. -
I don't know if they're growing together.
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I think he would've gotten hit, but I don't think it would've led to a fumble.
A sack would've been perfectly fine (clock runs, we can still run more clock, and punt to Thad Lewis). The fumble was the problem.
As Tannehill goes to throw, the ball is unprotected on the side Mario Williams came from. Tannehill needs to feel that pressure and simply fold up and protect the ball (and himself for that matter). Especially in that situation - small, late lead on a team running a makeshift offense with a backup QB. Ball security should be everyone's #1 priority at that stage in this particular game - no turnovers. -
That's asking a lot considering the read-progression on the route. Clabo became Tannehill's blind side and it would have been impossible to feel the pressure from Mario Williams after Tannehill clicked off the safety read and onto Brian Hartline.
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Facing 8 in the box i know you have to spread out the formation. Quick out routes beit flats, screens, 5yd routes or stop routes is prone to minimal yardage at best, at worst...we witnessed it. If a Defense throws 8 in the box then its countered by spreading the pass routes. Nobody will convince me with the weapons Tannehill has that Sherman is using the receiving Corp to its max efficiency. Hartline got over a 1000yds last season as our #1WR last season. By all intensive purposes with the signing of Wallace, Clay proving a weapon and Gibson being a 1st down machine then there is a problem with playcalling. Hartline has almost gone missing this season which isnt on #82.
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Especially that quickly. When people say feel the pressure, it could be two things... peripheral vision - in which case he could and probably would have covered up the ball. Or two, an internal timer to say time to go and look around ... There was NO time for this, at least IMO.
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