For me this was Tannehill's best game of his career.
I know that RT has had better statistical games in his career, but:
- This was against an opponent with a tough defense and a good offense. So he wasn't get 'free stats' because the opponent wasn't defending well or the opposition offense was having lots of three and out giving him lots of opportunities to accumulate stats. also the Chargers were up for this game, they knew it was critical to their remaining chances of getting into the playoffs.
- He wasn't getting his stats padded by the receivers bailing him out. For example the Tennessee game last year with a perfect rating a lot of that came from Landry playing like someone had hacked an Xbox.
- While the receivers weren't bailing him out they also did their job. No one is left wondering what the difference would be if receiver X hadn't screwed up that one time (which we've heard too much of this season).
He definitely was helped by the coaches sticking to the run for the previous 3 games. Today SD were biting on the play action because they knew that Miami would commit to the run. The chargers knew they had to respect the jay-train and that helped Tannehill today, You could see against the Bills and the Steelers that their defenses were geared to stopping the pass.
The OL played well today against a strong defensive front, and there is no way Tannehill could produce this game with a Dallas Thomas, Billy Turner or John Fox in front of him.
So yes, Tannehill finally had a really good game this season but it's because the whole team combined. The receivers,rushers and blockers all contributed. The coaching staff contributed. The defense stood up against a tough opponent. All of this on a tough cross country road trip.
As a final note, I know a lot of people have been saying that Tannehill has bad pocket presence, and that it has has improved in the win streak. My take on that is that when Tannehill faces normal pressure i.e. the DL has to fight through a block to get pressure Tannehill plays like a normal QB (not great like Russel Wilson escape artistry but can make a play sometimes). I always thought that the supposed problem with Tannehill's pocket presence/inability to escape sacks/poor scrambling had much more to do with whiffed blocks than with Tannehill's QBing.
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cuchulainn, miami365, mbsinmisc and 5 others like this.
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Almost too obvious a statement to debate IMO.
In a nutshell, for me it's the first game where the entire game Tannehill was helping to create plays and keep drives alive or score. Obviously, for no QB will it go right all the time and this was no exception, but this wasn't a game where the team played well and Tannehill was just a game manager (some of the previous games were like that) or where he played fantastic for a drive or two, or even a quarter or two but not the whole game. No, he made good decisions and was an integral part of the win from first snap to last snap.
Like I said.. too obvious to debate :wink2:
Only question for me is whether he can consistently help create plays and lead the team like that or whether it's too isolated a phenomenon. One good thing is that it's generally easier to do it a second time once you've done it once. -
Pauly,
This is a great post, but unfortunately, you are way off. I have been on this message board for quite some time, and I learned early on that Ryan Tannehill is solely to blame for all problems Dolphins related. You may have noticed the departures of Billy Turner and Dallas Thomas, but those two linemen have had nothing to do with the success/failure of this team. In fact, I have learned from this site that Matt Moore would have thrived with those two stellar linemen anchoring the offensive line.
Perhaps you should change the tone of this post. I think your post should have read "With Matt Moore, We would be Undefeated". I just don't understand why we have lost focus on this board lately. I remember the glory days of us riding Ryan Tannehill out of town.mbsinmisc, Fame and RealDolphinsFan2 like this. -
We finally have competent offensive line play and we have a running back that opposing defenses have to game plan for. The talent has always been there with Tannehill, we just need to keep building WITH him....not necessarily around him.
I live in TN, so unfortunately I get a plethora of Titan games. Today I watched Aaron Rodgers struggle playing behind a terrible offensive line. In fact Rodgers so far has had a down year. Many including myself consider him a top three quarterback in the game, but he has looked like a mere mortal due to him not having competent offensive line play and really no running game to speak of. Let me clarify that i'm not comparing the two players, i'm just saying that the QB can't do it all no matter how great they are. -
Tannehill had a good day- beautiful deep passes, accurate throws all-around and much better footwork in the pocket. All good things.
On the other hand, his pocket presence is still deplorable. We saw yet another strip sack where he never saw the hit coming, and his 17 yard scramble was one of the most awkward plays all year. The only reason he escaped at all is because the defender tried to grab him while being blocked...and then he jerked away instead of side stepping. If the defender wasn't partially blocked then he gets leveled, much like the play where Rivers was surrounded and looked like a pinball bouncing between tilts. From that point on he did well with the pump fake, pointing to the phantom receiver and then trucking down field.
Every QB has his strengths and weaknesses, so this isn't a bad thing at all. Our boy just has one glaring chink in his armor, with otherwise excellent skills and undeniable toughness. He's turning into a true stud- I just wish he could get a better feel in the pocket and stop getting clobbered. I really hope that comes with time because the strides he's taken this year are spectacular.djphinfan likes this. -
i have to agree. Tannehill played like a real pro today. for the first time in along time i didnt have my fingers crossed but rather was very confident that we would pull it off today. made me a believer today
Pauly likes this. -
Albert REALLY got beat on that play. That was a tremendous jump by engram, you can't truly fault tannehill for not feeling it, especially given how well the oline has played the last 4 games.
I also disagree about that scramble being awkward. Tannehill got away, rolled out and then he took off with a fire I don't think I've ever seen. He's NEVER done that. And then that lob to Williams.
What a game from him.Superself, number21, RealDolphinsFan2 and 2 others like this. -
I'll watch the play again. Live (to me) it felt like it took an eternity for him to break the arm tackle and then begin moving sideways, and then he just seemed like he was rattled for the next several steps. Maybe it was in my head though.
One thing that did stand out though- when we got the ball back, I wasn't the least bit worried on those final drives. Ajayi tripped on that first drive and that put us behind the wheel, then he took the big loss on the 2nd drive (which Tannehill seemed to negate the next play when the phantom penalty came in). I still wasn't worried on that final drive though as long as they turned Tannehill loose to attack- who would have thought he'd launch the bomb on first down though? Holy **** that was awesome!
One more thing- that throw to Stills may have been the pass of the year! With a defender burying him and the tight window at a tough angle, that was sensational. -
That's because he had the two bombs under pressure (three with the dumb penalty), plus we recovered the strip sack.
I'm not trying to knock him though- I was just sharing what I personally saw. If that's not allowed, then we should close the forums and take up knitting to pass the time on Sunday nights. -
Yeah, but you didn't take into account the two huge positive plays when under pressure, plus a bunch of other solid play under pressure but concentrated on the 2 plays that you said showed RT17 having deplorable pocket presence. I was bringing an independent and, hopefully, unbiased opinion in to suggest that maybe your perception was skewed.
One of the big problems of assessing anyone in any field is confirmation bias (giving more weight to information that supports your preconceptions and discounting information that contradicts your preconceptions). One of the biggest reasons why there is so much disagreement about Ryan Tannehill is that most of us are arguing from our imaginations (what we think we know about the world) and not so much on what reality is.
Disagreement is how human knowledge advances. I wasn't trying to shut you up in any way, I was pointing out that someone else saw the same things and had a widely different view than you.cuchulainn, number21, RealDolphinsFan2 and 1 other person like this. -
For five straight years now, I've sat on the fence over Tannehill. You can look at HUNDREDS of my threads and find that nobody here has pointed out more of his strengths and weaknesses alike from one week to the next. If he sucks, I'll say it. If he's great, I'll say that too. I may be one of the most unbiased here that's been involved in the Tannehill conversations since day one.
In short, I'm not arguing at all...much less from my imagination. I simply saw improved footwork at times but poor pocket presence. If that wasn't true, then he wouldn't have been leveled on 7+ plays this afternoon when a single side-step keeps him clean. The only reason he'd do that is if he's throwing a timing route (which he did three times) or he has no idea the pressure was there in the first place.
It has to be one or the other though if he keeps getting leveled- either the footwork isn't there or his pocket presence isn't. That's about as unbiased as you can get. -
What I am saying is that Andrew Luck makes those plays people praise him for hanging tough in the pocket and delivering under fire. Today Tannehill makes those plays and gets called for having deplorable pocket presence.
My perception has been that RT's pocket presence is not been as bad as advertised because he had lineman who would flat out whiff on blocks. I think RT is a long way from good, but we have seen over the last 4 weeks a lot more positive plays under pressure than previously. I don't think RT has suddenly changed, its just that his blocking suddenly got better.number21 likes this. -
I must agree.Gase has possibly gotten him to the next level.He is making plays I have not seen from him in his first 4 years.He actually scrambled for a first down while making a defender miss.The pass to stills was the best pass I have seen him make with pressure in his face.Gase is the man.
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I've always been a pro-Tannehill guy, but today it finally dawned on me that his ceiling looks more like one of those "great real-life QB, bad fantasy QB" guys. I think we can win a lot of games with him, especially as he gets older, but he's never going to be a superstar.
cuchulainn, Pauly and Fin-O like this. -
Hopefully. The Stills TD was freakin' money.
Although that 3rd down pass to Parker in the endzone in the 4th quarter had me scratching my head. All he has to do is lob that bad boy and Parker can go get it. The fade pass continues to be a crutch of his.
Tanny needs to put teams away in moments like that.dolphin25 likes this. -
Now you're showing your bias....and it's flawed.
What Tannehill does has nothing to do with Andrew Luck. They're two different players in two different offenses with different lines, receivers, coaches, fields, running backs, schedules and so on. Heck, the way their defenses play even partially defines each QB and what their responsibilities are for the day. So trying to make a direct comparison is a fool's errand. They're not interchangeable Lego pieces- they're real people that think and breathe and do their best on any particular down. So stop obsessing what other people say about someone else's QB- it does not apply to the Miami Dolphins.
And once again...for the third time...I said that he had to stand in the pocket and take those hits on the deep passes. I'm not sure how much clearer I could be on that; those weren't the plays I was referring to. -
Well, you could see his confidence soar throughout the 4th quarter- that 2nd and 19 stands out after Ajayi took the big loss. He fired a rocket the very next play for the first down (which was negated by a penalty)...that's not the QB we're used to seeing. Then with that deep pass to Parker on the next series and the TD pass where Parker got held; he's playing with a lot of confidence in his abilities and his teammates.
However, you could probably make the argument that the confidence has been there all along; we just don't see it because-
1) Gase is using him much more conservatively
2) We haven't been playing much from behind
3) The line has really boosted the run game
In fact, the only time we've really been beaten this season was by the Patriots in the first half, and the RT we saw that afternoon to close out that game was a completely different person from the one who got the win for us yesterday. He was absolutely awesome that day but it somehow got overlooked since we lost. Still, I believe he has the potential to put up monster numbers at any given time with good blocking- that's just not how Gase is using him at this point in the season. But as his chemistry continues to develop with Parker and Stills, this team is going to become downright SCARY on offense.
Think about it- we barely use Landry at all anymore, plus we have two speed demons riding special teams because we can't find a place for them on the field. This team is so ridiculously stacked on offensive talent it's not even funny...we just don't see it because of the points above. But when everything clicks and Tannehill is truly unleashed with all of his weapons, I think we have the potential for the #1 offense in the league. -
personally i think we could have gotten performances like this from tannehill from 2014 on. he was ready, the rest of the team wasnt. and i dont even think this is his best game. what it is however is the game where dolphins fans are starting to believe again. so maybe its his most important game but he's had better games
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Yeah I was hiding my bias when I put in my initial post "As a final note, I know a lot of people have been saying that Tannehill has bad pocket presence, and that it has has improved in the win streak. My take on that is that when Tannehill faces normal pressure i.e. the DL has to fight through a block to get pressure Tannehill plays like a normal QB (not great like Russel Wilson escape artistry but can make a play sometimes). I always thought that the supposed problem with Tannehill's pocket presence/inability to escape sacks/poor scrambling had much more to do with whiffed blocks than with Tannehill's QBing." I was secretly trying to fool you but puttingmy bias in writing in the first post. Yep you got me good.
Everybody is biased. I try to take care to point out when I know I am biased. I am not some football watching robot sent back from the future that makes infallible unbiased judgements of football. My opinion is that a lot of the examples people have posted over the years about how RT17 has bad pocket presence have been examples where the OL straight up whiffed their block, just like the strip-sack in this game. Also every QB has plays where they make mistakes. What I see is a lot of people using OL whiffs + normal mistakes every QB makes = bad pocket presence. What I think is more accurate is that when you remove the OL whiffs he JAG - not bad, not good and as a fan you want to see him make more plays. -
This for me was the first game of the season where all the offense was working in sync together. Even then the other offensive skill players weren't making anything special happen by going above and beyond the call of duty. No one handed catches for big gains, no repeated long runs from the RBs where they break several tackles, no WR juking 5 defenders on the way to the end zone.
What we saw today is how the Gase offence should work. And with the talent we have on offense this has the potential to be scary good. The issue now is consistency, not from Tannehill, but from all 11 offensive players. We've seen already this year games where the OL didn't do their job, games where the receivers didn't do their job and games where the RBs didn't do their job, and Gase's scheme is reliant on everybody contributing to make a 7 headed Hydra that opposing Ds can't key on stopping [X] for the win.