Tim Ryan actually mentioned that during the TV broadcast as well. Ryan said something to the effect of Jake, right now is so worried about getting beat by a speed rush that he is so quick to jump out of his stance now, which left him susceptible to the inside rush that I think Clemons got on him on the one play... Cant remember if it resulted in a sack, or a hit on Tanny, or a blown up run.

Personally, I still think we're crazy to run the guy out of town at this point. I understand the contract needs to be feasible for both sides, so I think we should all hope that Jake realizes that too. You know if he hits free agency though someone will offer up some crazy *** cash, so then it comes down to does he think we can win here, and are we heading in the right direction more than likely.

 

If there's really any mental aspect, it's concentration. Jake Long isn't getting beat to the outside, and nor has he ever had a problem with that.

It's not even consistently pass protection. A lot of the players that have stuck out and announcers have highlighted are completely other issues- Allowing himself to get blown up by Shawne Merriman, throwing ineffective cut-blocks on short passes, being inconsistent in terms of run blocking, etc. and so on.

I'm wondering if it isn't really in big part that Jim Turner sucks, and a lot of the other issues with the line stem from that.

 

I think we have to ask ourselves this:

How much of a difference is there going to be in the salary Jake Long makes for the next four to six years if he 1) plays this season like a typical contract year, where he goes all out and tries to earn as much as he can in his next contract, or 2) plays in a way that's significantly poorer than that, but that keeps him healthy by reducing his risk for injury.

I don't imagine there will be all that big a difference in his salary if he plays one way or the other.

However, if Jake Long goes all out and gets himself hurt, obviously there will be a big difference in his salary.

I don't buy any of these other mental issues. This guy has been at the top of his game for too long not to know how to play well if he wants to. If he's playing relatively poorly (for him) because of a "mental" issue, it's by choice IMO.

The only other logical explanation IMO is a physical decline due to the cumulative effects of injuries and years of play, which is entirely possible.

 

You think he's mostly talk Pate ?

 

Looking at Turner's resume.....he sucks....

• 2008-: Texas A&M (Offensive Line)
• 2006: Delaware (Assistant Head Coach / Recruiting Coordinator)
• 2005-06: Delaware (Offensive Line)
• 2003-04: Temple (Offensive Line)
• 2000-02: Harvard (Offensive Line / Run Game Coordinator)
• 1999: Louisiana Tech (Offensive Line)
• 1997-98: Northeastern (Defensive Line)
• 1996: Northeastern (Running Backs)
• 1994-95: Northeastern (Offensive Line / Tight Ends)
• 1989: Kent (London) Rams (Offensive Coordinator / Player-Coach)
• 1988: Braintree (Mass.) High School (Offense)

aTm was his first big time gig......and he was a part of a staff that got canned.

 

I agree Sho, It's hard to imagine the best not being able to fix the problem if he's healthy....I've been hinting for months that it might be something where he knows he wants too be somewhere else, were just not gonna get that serious commitment that you would normally get if this is not the place he wants to be..

I don't buy the decline of an elite player, in his prime,whos healthy and comfortable where he is, just doesn't add up.

 

You guys really think Jake Long's performance at this point in his career as an NFL pro has anything to do with an offensive line coach?

Come on. Christ Jake Long could coach offensive line! :)

 

That's something I've thought about as well. Sometimes players just want to be in a different region of the country, perhaps. I could easily see Jake Long being a "Northern boy."

 

Is there that much difference in what they teach at this level, isn't it more about teaching the details, motivation?

 

that exactly what I've been thinking..not sure if it has any validity, but, if both parties are interested in each other,and he was your first overall pick, and he's in his prime, why is he reaching free agency?

 

I don't think that's true at all, there's plenty of guys who need positional coaches to stay on them and work with them on things. Players will slip sometimes, and just because someone is a good player doesn't mean they're fit to be a coach or don't need coaching. Especially when you're switching elements of the blocking scheme and offense, even if it is similar to college.

When his biggest problem is consistency, and his issues are coming all over the place rather than in one area, it really doesn't suggest a physical problem . He's had dominant games both in pass protection and run blocking against quality opponents, and looked like **** at times in basically every aspect or another at times.

 

Just some food for thought. Who would you rather have at left tackle, Ryan Clady or Jake Long? Let's pretend for a second that you can get either of them for a Duane Brown type of deal. Who would you take? Both are free agents this offseason. Both had outstanding rookie seasons and have seen their production slip a bit the past few seasons. Going back to two weeks ago, Clady was only one of two left tackles not to give up a sack yet this season (along with Duane Brown). Not sure if he's surrendered any in the past two weeks, but it sounds like he's rebounded from a rougher 2011 season.

 

Absolutely. The fact that he could coach himself doesn't mean that his current practice time is being misused. He cant go home and run his own drills.

 

Turners responsibilities are far more than just teaching techniques on field probably. He'd also be responsible for preparing the unit each week for their assignments and responsibilities as per the game plan put together, preparing the players for the oppositions strenghts and weaknesses that they will face, how to work together as a unit. If he lacks the ability to put the plan together, and help the players put it together, and correct small issues with techniques, then yes, the line would suffer. He's likely not teaching these guys anything new. Its hard to believe there's things they dont know at this point, but Turner would be helping notice issues they may have with the execution of the techniques etc, etc. So, the players may think theyre performing properly, but if the OL coach isn't recognizing, or pointing out flaws to the O-linemen, there's nobody there to correct them really. So, yes, if he's an ineffective position coach, when it comes to observing, and preparing the unit we could surely have OL problems. His duties arent to teach these guys how to block. He should be noticing issues though when watching film, and helping them correct them.

 

Your right, but I could never understand that. I could see a kid from california or florida being drafted by, say......... Buffalo, and just not being happy. But it's hard to imagine someone from the mid-west just not finding a way to enjoy South Florida. Unless you just really need to go hunting ALL the time. But beautiful women, great weather, clear water, an no state income-tax is just hard to give up. Especially when you can afford to move everyone you care about down here too.

I'm actually friends with some former Michigan players, and they've all indicated that Jake is a huge softie. Perhaps he's homesick. Wants momma.

 

Ultimately, we can consider ourselves lucky he's having an off year during his contract year. If he was playing lights out this season, the conversation we are having is about him never playing for us again because we'd definitely lose him. Its a small miracle; stop choking.

 

You are missing the point of looking at one's resume. It literally took the man 20 years to reach what anyone could argue is a pinnacle of a profession. If he was a good teacher of those details, there would be more big name stops/NFL experience along the way.

 

Right now, Clady is a way better player, but I don't think for most of their respective careers it's been that close.

Clady got pretty handily overrated for his rookie season, in my opinion. His biggest trick was not converting pressure into sacks, rather than being an elite tackle then.

 

I don't know if that's necessarily true, coaching sometimes I think can be a bit of a good old boy's club, especially when it comes to the NFL end of it.

 

I see your point..

 

True, but even still, skill is rarely overlooked.

 

But you'd take Clady now over Long if you could have either of them for the same deal? I think I would too...but it's sort of a toss-up. I'd vote Clady based solely on the fact that he's only had one major injury (patella tendon in 2010 I believe) where as Long has had several.

I think that also allows you to not have to break the bank by either 1) giving Long a raise via giving him the franchise tag, and 2) not having to pay him top dollar a la Joe Thomas, because, as you alluded to, I think Long's body of work is better than Clady's. I think Clady's stock is still rising, where as Long's is plateauing. It also allows you a little bit of flexibility in terms of re-signing other impending free agents and/or gives you the opportunity to bring in a starter or two via free agency.

I know that's not really Philbin's M.O., but I think you have to put some of those resources to use on some veteran players; especially depending on who is re-signed or isn't.

 

Do you all really believe these sorts of factors could possibly be responsible for the difference between being one of the top two or three left tackles in the game, and being what Jake Long's been this year?

I mean everything you're saying with regard to coaching has validity, but I don't think it comes anywhere near explaining what we're seeing from Jake Long right now in comparison to what we've seen from him in the past.

Hell, what that implies is that the coaches he's had before must've been something really special! :)

 

A former OL coach who shared responsibilities with Turner at Northeastern and Harvard. The GOBN rears its ugly head again.

 

His resume doesn't look much different than Joe Philbin's first 20 years.

Time will tell if he's a good NFL coach. But the fact that it took him 18 or so years to attain a job of which there are only 32 in the world, I don't automatically hold that against him.

His A&M lines were pretty good as I understand it, though I can't claim for certain.

 

No, you misunderstand. It took him 20 years to get to a major BCS OL coach position, where there are currently 67 positions(Notre Dame included). Philbin at that time in his career was coaching in the NFL after a successful stop at Iowa. While their early careers look the same, the trajectory is different. Philbin was moving up consistently, Turner was lateral moving his way along until a 1 year stint at BC, then aTm.

 

Did Boselli mention the fact that this is a change of scheme for big Jake? He may have been in a zone scheme before and actually done well but he is a pretty big, not so mobile guy to be running with a zone blocking scheme.

 

Jake has always played in a man scheme.

 

I think I read somewhere that he once played in a zone scheme but even still, it can be difficult for a super huge lineman to get that scheme down pat physically!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFIAoIPSKek

 

You know who else was an O-Line coach?

This guy...



...err...meant this guy...



“The struggle for field goals will be fought entirely between us, between the 20 and the 20. All else is facade and illusion. Behind New England stands touchdowns, and passes, and no runs on passing downs. Even when we have driven the touchdowns out of New York, they remain our worst enemy.

 

In all fairness to Turner, I'd say his recent resume doesn't suck, unless you consider "sucking" as spending 2 years coaching up:

• Luke Joeckel (best & most NFL ready left tackle prospect since Jake Long)
• Jake Matthews (likely top 20 pick this year. NFL ready right tackle)

Not only that, but these two studs could've potentially started in the NFL after just their 2nd year of college ball (no redshirt), which is amazing.



... and he must've turned enough heads at Delaware for a program like Texas A&M to hire him.

 

it's not hard to imagine bro, but it still doesn't make it right if its true, so knowing what we know of Jake, I can't imagine it, yet have to talk about it, because I've seen the guy be the best, and at 27, you still need to be the best, no matter where the hell you are....if that makes any sense at all..lol

 

Luke Joeckel was a HS AA and had offers from Alabama, LSU, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Arkansas, UCLA and Texas Tech.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/player-Luke-Joeckel-88265

Jake Matthews was a consensus HS AA and held offers from Alabama, Arkansas, Oregon, Texas, Texas Tech, USC and Stanford.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/player-Jake-Matthews-80515

It wasn't like this guy took 2* guys and turned them into what they are today. The raw material was there. These guys would be successful at any of the other schools.

Turning heads you say? Name me one offensive lineman he has put in the league ever.

 

I don't give a **** if you make 12M a year or ****in $12/hour. Do your job. If you can't, then **** off.

If you are 'scared', go work a ****ing coin-op car-wash.

 

A similar rule about a coherent post would also be helpful.

 

I don't think he's worth the money, but you know he'll go to the Pats and that's an almost guarantee......my worst nightmare. :tantrum:

 

It took Joe Philbin 15 years to reach Iowa.

It took Jim Turner 14 years to reach A&M after four years overseas in the Marine Corps. He went from Harvard to Temple to Delaware to BC to A&M in the span of 6 years. That would seem to like moving up.

He's probably 'just' an OL coach. I'm not comparing him to Philbin as much as trying to contribute perspective. Philbin had some OC duties along the way, and now he's a head coach.