Tua is not the Problem

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

You and I are pretty much cut from the same piece of wood when it comes to our opinions and evaluations of Tagovailoa.

How Barry may have described this ESPN “journalist” may not have been politically correct…and I can overlook that (we ALL say things that offend people…someone will ALWAYS be offended at something we say), I was more interested in the crux of the point and that was the incessant targeted criticism of Tua. “Almost interceptions” criticism of Tua without the same standard being applied to some of the other “big name” quarterbacks in the league.

That’s why when you said you stopped watching because of his description of Mina, it was a bit disappointing. With you and I being cut from the same piece of wood, I was hoping you would have caught the same thing I caught in the overall crux of the point being made…ridiculous criticisms being fabricated against a quarterback who has a WINNINH record as a starter.

Yeah, I completely agree with you on most viewpoints, and if you're ever in my area then I'd love to grab a few beers and talk football or watch a game. My only point was that I could do that with Resnor too, even though he and I hardly agree on anything involving Miami quarterbacks.

Tua played great today. I only saw one throw that I would call questionable.

"cbrad wrote:

Tua's rating after 186 attempts is now 112.7. That's insane. That's currently 2.68 standard deviations above the mean. This is way into elite QB territory. Oh, and it doesn't matter how the QB "looks" if this is the passing efficiency you're getting.

I think the pendulum is swinging towards keep Tua and get good enough pass protection around him as opposed to find another QB. Just needs to keep doing this rest of the year.

Two points.

#1, I agree that Tua is proving himself and that the stats should speak for themselves. He's having a great year.

#2, Tua has three stud WR1 type targets in Gisecki, Hill, and Waddle, plus a stud RB in Mosert. That makes all the difference in the world.

Other teams have also had elite talent around the QB, but everything seems to be clicking this season from coaching to talent to execution. The penalties today should have cost us the game, but other teams simply can't stop our receivers and ground game. Some of the passes today were incredible- there was inches of room to thread the needle. That's how much confidence Tua has in his team though, and how much they believe in him as well.

Thinking back to Tannehill, I said so often that our biggest problem was constant change- a new offense, a new GM, a new head coach- every single year, something changed and we were starting from square one. That was true for this season as well, but my biggest positive is that this is a team you can build around and tweak for the next 3-5 seasons. Maybe we don't win it all this season, but it's hard not to see us as a double-digit winning team for the next several years. That's how you build dynasties...it just takes 4-5 special players and the right leadership. And I think we have that.

"Two Tacos wrote:

Tebow was 8 and 6 as a starter. One game over .500. So, while technically a winning record, hardly doing nothing but winning.

Apparently you guys are all ignorant regarding the Skip Bayless autotune song about Tebow.

No one gets jokes.

"Vinny Fins wrote:

Some of you need to delete your goddamn accounts after today. Pack it up.

I will stop holding my breath and be all in on Tua if he gets through this season without another concussion or significant injury.

"KeyFin wrote:

Thinking back to Tannehill, I said so often that our biggest problem was constant change- a new offense, a new GM, a new head coach- every single year, something changed and we were starting from square one. That was true for this season as well, but my biggest positive is that this is a team you can build around and tweak for the next 3-5 seasons. Maybe we don't win it all this season, but it's hard not to see us as a double-digit winning team for the next several years. That's how you build dynasties...it just takes 4-5 special players and the right leadership. And I think we have that.

If you have good enough players, not only will they perform well in a new system (might take a bit of time to adjust, but not much) you won't have to change the system. Hill is the one guy that is truly elite and he's one of the best signings we've had in a long time. He and McDaniel totally changed Tua's game. Main concern now is the defense. McDaniel is an offensive coach, and I'm fine with him being OC. But if he doesn't get the DC right we're going nowhere.

Those are my paramount concerns right now: DC and pass blocking. It's a bit refreshing to not list QB as one of the top concerns!

"resnor wrote:

I will stop holding my breath and be all in on Tua if he gets through this season without another concussion or significant injury.

Just stop. You’re starting to look really petty.

"cbrad wrote:

If you have good enough players, not only will they perform well in a new system (might take a bit of time to adjust, but not much) you won't have to change the system. Hill is the one guy that is truly elite and he's one of the best signings we've had in a long time. He and McDaniel totally changed Tua's game. Main concern now is the defense. McDaniel is an offensive coach, and I'm fine with him being OC. But if he doesn't get the DC right we're going nowhere.

Those are my paramount concerns right now: DC and pass blocking. It's a bit refreshing to not list QB as one of the top concerns!

Injuries have really decimated the secondary. What they’re doing with 2nd and 3rd stringers is pretty remarkable. Same on the offensive line.

Good ass win today. Detroit has a decent offense. We got behind and came right back. On to next week!

"KeyFin wrote:

Other teams have also had elite talent around the QB, but everything seems to be clicking this season from coaching to talent to execution. The penalties today should have cost us the game, but other teams simply can't stop our receivers and ground game. Some of the passes today were incredible- there was inches of room to thread the needle. That's how much confidence Tua has in his team though, and how much they believe in him as well.

IMO, one of Tua's best passes today was incomplete. He was trying to hit Hill across the middle and threw it too high and too fast for him. Looking at it on replay and it was clear that had he targeted Hill correctly, the ball would have been intercepted by a linebacker playing underneath. I immediately thought Tua changed the pass after the LB shifted over in the zone after committing to the throw. I might be giving him too much credit, but it looked like a pass that was either going to be an incredible grab by Hill or an incompletion. And yeah, it can be said that he shouldn't have thrown to Hill, but except for that player in zone, the play could have been good for 20-30 yards. Tua saved it when it could have been disastrous.

"Finatik wrote:

Just stop. You’re starting to look really petty.

How is that being petty? Tua has now shown the ability to play at a high level, I'd like to see him get through the rest of the season without another concussion because another concussion is a bad thing. He can't just get like a concussion or two a season and have a long career. Know what I mean?

So yeah, I want to see Tua not have another concussion this season. Sorry not sorry. It's important if he's going to be our long term option.

"resnor wrote:

How is that being petty? Tua has now shown the ability to play at a high level, I'd like to see him get through the rest of the season without another concussion because another concussion is a bad thing. He can't just get like a concussion or two a season and have a long career. Know what I mean?

So yeah, I want to see Tua not have another concussion this season. Sorry not sorry. It's important if he's going to be our long term option.

So durability is your concern? Not skill at this point right? Or...The ability to put the numbers he's putting up? I mean, today was pretty damn impressive from him. He's ascending into an upper echelon quarterback whether people like that or not. I must say that at this point, my only concern is his durability. If we can keep him healthy, he's going to do great for us.

"resnor wrote:

How is that being petty? Tua has now shown the ability to play at a high level, I'd like to see him get through the rest of the season without another concussion because another concussion is a bad thing. He can't just get like a concussion or two a season and have a long career. Know what I mean?

So yeah, I want to see Tua not have another concussion this season. Sorry not sorry. It's important if he's going to be our long term option.

The same could be said of any quarterback that were to suffer a concussion the ferocity that Tagovailoa took against the Bengals.

Here’s an interesting read as it pertains to quarterbacks and concussions. Never heard anyone talking any of these like everyone seems to be with Tagovailoa.

https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=564817

I think Tua is going to be JUST fine

"ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:

So durability is your concern? Not skill at this point right? Or...The ability to put the numbers he's putting up? I mean, today was pretty damn impressive from him. He's ascending into an upper echelon quarterback whether people like that or not. I must say that at this point, my only concern is his durability. If we can keep him healthy, he's going to do great for us.

I think durability and how long his body will hold up in the NFL. Clearly he’s shown he can play at a high level with the right system, coach and talent around him.

I was really happy to see him slide today instead of going head first into the defender. That needs to be his default going forward.

we have an elite qb this year..

Haters step up???

"resnor wrote:

How is that being petty? Tua has now shown the ability to play at a high level, I'd like to see him get through the rest of the season without another concussion because another concussion is a bad thing. He can't just get like a concussion or two a season and have a long career. Know what I mean?

So yeah, I want to see Tua not have another concussion this season. Sorry not sorry. It's important if he's going to be our long term option.

Before it was his arm. Then it was the yards. Now it’s his durability. And if that doesn’t hold up it will be something else. Can’t you just appreciate winning? Cause it doesn’t seem like you can.

"Finatik wrote:

Before it was his arm. Then it was the yards. Now it’s his durability. And if that doesn’t hold up it will be something else. Can’t you just appreciate winning? Cause it doesn’t seem like you can.

Arm is still a question, it's not more of an issue because Hill and waddle get so much separation he can afford to have a weak arm. Yards have never been a question with Hill and waddle putting up chunk plays, the issue is points, aside from today against the worst defense in the league, we haven't been able to score many points. And durability is also definitely still an issue.

Three straight seasons missing games because of injury. He has not shown that he is durable.

Again, after all the years of dolphins failures I have learned to see through the brief mirages of success we've had and look at the reality. The reality is we won a close game against the worst defense in the league. I am not going to jump for joy and declare us super bowl contenders now.

When we do it against a good defense that is not missing half their starters then I'll be convinced.

"cbrad wrote:

If you have good enough players, not only will they perform well in a new system (might take a bit of time to adjust, but not much) you won't have to change the system. Hill is the one guy that is truly elite and he's one of the best signings we've had in a long time. He and McDaniel totally changed Tua's game. Main concern now is the defense. McDaniel is an offensive coach, and I'm fine with him being OC. But if he doesn't get the DC right we're going nowhere.

Those are my paramount concerns right now: DC and pass blocking. It's a bit refreshing to not list QB as one of the top concerns!

When I look at what the Dolphins gave up to get Hill and what they paid him, it floors me how worth it he is.

Signing or trading a big ticket wide receiver seems to fail so much in this league.

while I thought he would be good for Miami, I did not expect after 8 games for him to be on pace to break Calvin Johnson's yardage record.

"Finatik wrote:

Before it was his arm. Then it was the yards. Now it’s his durability. And if that doesn’t hold up it will be something else. Can’t you just appreciate winning? Cause it doesn’t seem like you can.

Can you stop putting your perceptions on me? Yes, I had concerns about his ability to play at a high level. Took two years, but he finally started showing. But then he had one nasty concussion, possiblity two, but definitely one, so that brings up other concerns.

That has ZERO to do with enjoying winning.

I guess forums aren't for discussion of things that aren't popular.

"ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:

So durability is your concern? Not skill at this point right? Or...The ability to put the numbers he's putting up? I mean, today was pretty damn impressive from him. He's ascending into an upper echelon quarterback whether people like that or not. I must say that at this point, my only concern is his durability. If we can keep him healthy, he's going to do great for us.

Correct. My concern is durability. I want him to get through the rest of this season without another concussion. He's shown he can play. The question is, is he durable enough.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

The same could be said of any quarterback that were to suffer a concussion the ferocity that Tagovailoa took against the Bengals.

Here’s an interesting read as it pertains to quarterbacks and concussions. Never heard anyone talking any of these like everyone seems to be with Tagovailoa.

https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=564817

I think Tua is going to be JUST fine

Good. I'm glad you think that. For me personally, to be comfortable with him long-term, he can't have another concussion this season.

"resnor wrote:

Good. I'm glad you think that. For me personally, to be comfortable with him long-term, he can't have another concussion this season.

Dude, relax and enjoy our quarterback for a minute.

"resnor wrote:

Can you stop putting your perceptions on me? Yes, I had concerns about his ability to play at a high level. Took two years, but he finally started showing. But then he had one nasty concussion, possiblity two, but definitely one, so that brings up other concerns.

That has ZERO to do with enjoying winning.

I guess forums aren't for discussion of things that aren't popular.

I think for a lot of people, including myself, it was durability concerns. He had issues with injuries his sophomore and senior season in college. That doesn’t get any better in the NFL, especially when you’re small for the position.

He’s a very likeable guy and it’s very clear his teammates love him. I don’t think he has elite arm strength but he reads defenses very well, can make decisions to get rid of the ball and has show he’s extremely efficient. I’m not sure how well he’d do in another system but that doesn’t really matter. He has the right coach, right system and weapons to make plays.

He’s doing all of that with what I’d call still a below average OL and not a great running game.

"ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:

I only bring up Fiedler because we did win games with him as our quarterback and he usually seems to be the guy that most Tua detractors point to when comparing the fact that we are winning games with him at quarterback. Fiedler was our guy 20+ years ago. It's actually hard to imagine that it's been 20 years, but it has. I remember saying to myself during those years that I would basically rather have any other starting quarterback in the league than him at the time. I don't feel that way about Tua. The thing with Fielder was that he was our weakest link in an otherwise very strong chain and he just so happened to play the quarterback position. He was basically a zip tie amongst padlocks. I was never a believer in him and if we weren't playing with a lead, he was downright awful to rely on. Not once did Fielder ever bring us back from a 20+ point deficit and if he did I certainly forgot about it. Not only did those Fiedler rosters have an all world defense, they also had running backs playing at peak levels with Lamar Smith for two years and then Ricky Williams. Fielder was as insulated as it gets for a quarterback and he still couldn't win games when it mattered the most. The most mind boggling thing about that era was that we never really tried to replace him unless you count Ray Lucas and AJ Fkin Feely.
Now that Tua has some weapons on offense, we're finally seeing what he can do. The offensive line is serviceable at best and that's only when Armstead is healthy. Obviously things are still a work in progress, but having Hill and Waddle are not only going to help Tua in the present, they're going to help his game long term.
Now, I do think Tua is better than Ryan Tannehill, but that's certainly not taking anything away from Tannehill as a player. I just think Tua reacts quicker, and reads the defense quicker than what Tannehill could do. Every quarterback has a skill that enables them to be a starter in this league. For Tannehill it's his arm strength, mobility, and his toughness at the position. For Tua, it's his read and react abilities and his accuracy. I'll take read, react, and accuracy over arm strength, but that's just ME. I'm not even going to get into "pocket presence" because Tua is worlds better at it than Tannehill ever was. With that said, durability is certainly an issue of right now for Tua. It's very important that he keeps his jersey as clean as possible while playing. I think in the end that will be his biggest obstacle. I really hope he doesn't fall victim to that.

The wife bought me a Fiedler jersey and i was like thanks for the thought, but I cannot stand Fielder have to take that back.