So, assuming the Dolphins were holding onto potentially $8 M per, plus (since Long took such a long time to agree), what do they do now?
Eric Winston, OT, seems obvious. If he comes at a reasonable price.
I think Abraham or Umenyiora at DE if they can get them reduced would be a big bonus.
And, maybe one of the CBs ... Grimes is a question-mark as to his return to full health. Other thoughts?
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Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member
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I'd rather sign Vollmer than Winston. possibly weaken the king of the division and we get a guy who's played and excelled at both tackle spots...no brainer signing for me. If Martin doesn't improve enough we can easily put Vollmer back on the left side.
cdz12250 likes this. -
It wouldn't hurt Miami to hurt their competition. I don't think Vollmer healthy is far off what Long has been. New England's in a tight spot, taking Vollmer away from them is a little jab shot.
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I like Vollmer but he has had back issues of late. I perfer to see grab a tackle in the draft, we got extra picks to move back into the later part of the 1st round for either DJ Fluker or Justin Pugh.
Da 'Fins likes this. -
Who are some of the bargain FAs available:
Brandon Moore has been an excellent guard for years. -
I'd probably take Volmer over Winston, but saying he has been a good LT is not accurate.
I remember watching a cheatriots game last year where he was playing LT, and they were showing numbers on how bad he has played at LT. He was also beaten like a drum that afternoon.
Long is going to be very tough to replace. Martin might be our best shot.Last edited: Mar 18, 2013Da 'Fins likes this. -
Can we stop the cringe inducing "cheatriots" "belicheat" crap? It's rough to read.
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In 40 years of watching football, that was amongst the dirtiest plays I have ever seen. I couldn't believe it when I watched it life the first time. He lined the guy up from his blindside and went DIRECTLY for his knee. -
Ohio Fanatic, finyank13 and GARDENHEAD like this.
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Da 'Fins likes this.
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Well the word I'm hearing is we'll be in the running for Dumervill if we didn't resign Long... Maybe snag Elvis and Winston, then draft a OT as well. That with the additions we've already made would be a HUGE offseason.
Da 'Fins likes this. -
well, now that the Long situation is settled -- we can finally move on to:
RT - Winston ... should be able to nab him for < 6 MIL
CB Grimes ... should be able to nab him for < 4 MIL (should be a 'deal' coming off of his achilles injury)
DE Abraham/Freeney/Dummervil ... shouldn't have to pay more than 5 MIL
should be able to do all of these with our current available $$$$, sign the draft picks with some of the $$$ we pick up in JUN and then carry the rest to next year .... -
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I have heard those trying to defend this, and maybe it's cause I despise the JESTS, but this is going past your man, waiting till he is looking the other way, and going directly into his knees. THIS should've warrented a suspension and fine.
[video=youtube;c-GvUIr-Ayk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-GvUIr-Ayk[/video]
And you are correct, he was the other part of the infamous "Butt fumble" play.
I think he is serviceable, and a step up from John Jerry, but nothing more. -
My problem with the Eric Winston signing is he's obviously a right tackle, and that would means Jon Martin is our left tackle. At that point even if Joeckel/Fisher/Johnson make it to 12 (which they probably will not), they wouldn't be in play. I think Jon Martin should show us something before we entrust him with Ryan Tannehill's health and future. I don't like protecting the blind side with blind faith.
If you sign Sebastian Vollmer, that's arguably not the greatest system fit, but he can play left tackle. He's done it before. He was forced to play it for 5 games in 2009 as a rookie and racked up a +17.5 PFF grade in just those 5 games, averaging +3.5 a game. He racked up a +66.1 grade in the next 46 games as a starter at right tackle, averaging +1.4 per game.
Vollmer was a standout left tackle in college.eltos_lightfoot and Da 'Fins like this. -
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He's not open to the idea of moving to the right or inside, and KC is not going to draft a RT 1st overall. I'm not subscribed to PFF or anything, but I've heard he's a fine player. -
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That would be a terrible move. -
True on Long, but I also saw it was a 2 year deal, with the first year being 14 Garaunteed. That is a tall pill to swallow financially -
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You need to look out your window, about 500 miles Due East. That stream of water is me pissing at you!!!unluckyluciano likes this. -
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RT Eric Winston might be able for $5.5M in a multi-year deal.
DB Brent Grimes should nail a $3.5M contract because of his recent Achilles tendon injury.
DE Elvis Dumervil should grab a $7M contract, well above the $5M you implied.
DE John Abraham isn't worth of top money for Miami and could be looking for a deal in the range of $4-$6M.
DE Dwight Freeney is being targeted for several teams so his current price tag is close to $6M, and it's unlikely he would finish in town. Patriots played cheap on him and he just left that zone and could be moving into Denver.djphinfan and azfinfanmang like this. -
Winston, best zone blocking rt in the league. If the go into the draft with a glaring need at tackle, that is a missed opportunity.
dolfan22 likes this. -
The bright side on Eric Winston is it's a perfect system fit and at least you'd have one pretty good tackle.
The down side is you're trusting the blind side to a guy that allowed a pressure on the QB every 8.8 pass snaps last year at left tackle, which was even worse than his allowing a pressure every 11.2 pass snaps at right tackle.dolfan22 likes this. -
winston is a great locker room guy too
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Pro Football Focus puts together a signature stat that isn't EXACTLY like what I've been doing with their basic stats since 2008, but it's close enough. It's only different in mechanics, not spirit.
They take 0.75 times hits and pressures, add sacks, divide by pass snaps, and subtract all that from 100%. Out of all 72 offensive tackles that took at least 25% of their team's pass snaps, Jon Martin's 91.1% at left tackle would've ranked 67th. His 93.1% at right tackle would've ranked him 57th of the 72.
That's the guy you're trusting with the franchise's blind side. I get it. He'll improve. He'll get stronger. Yadda yadda yadda. How do you know? You don't know. It's on faith. You're essentially saying this guy was one of the very worst (if not the worst) left tackles in the NFL last year, but we think he's going to be at the very least mediocre this year...based on...based on...umm... -
Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member
I don't know enough about the Vollmer situation - but I have read and heard a lot of skepticism because a back issue can be much more debilitating than a knee issue. Backs are notoriously tricky and never seem to fully heal. Many back surgeries have failed. So, it seems that could be a big disaster waiting to happen. Thoughts?
At the same time it is, as you note and many have, unlikely one of the top 3 OTs fall to 12 (and then it's painful to have to use your #1 pick on an OT when you had one there ...).
I realize Martin is also a risk (I am a "wishful thinker" here). It's really not a great situation, imo, losing Long. They probably have some regrets - or will. -
I can't comment on Vollmer medically.
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This, right here is exactly why I think we're really going to regret Jake leaving. As much as many of us want to sit here today, and say good riddance, he took an extra million, he's not as good... blah blah blah... We're going to miss him. He's far better of a player than Martin was, while playing injured.
Im not sure what people see in Martin. Clearly I'm not seeing that he's a fit for this league. Hopefully he comes out and proves me wrong this year. Either that, or we better be planning on drafting a tackle at 12.. which would be disappointing IMO. I get that it fills the need, but the need didn't have to be there in the first place. Whether its Jake... or Winston, or Vollmer, or Ireland's mother. I don't care who really. Fact is our OL took a big hit here, and we need to fill that gap now, along with a pass rusher, and get some CB's. Be interesting to see how this plays out, but I dont see Martin as part of the solution... on either side. Sure, thats basing it on his rookie year, and he should get better... the problem is I don't think he got better as the season went on... so.. it does make me worry a bit.azfinfanmang likes this. -
Don't loop me in with that :lol:
I've been saying it for 2 weeks now. As much as I really believe Jonathan Martin was our best draft pick last year, he is far from being ready to be a starting left tackle in the NFL.
Couple that with a sophmore QB, who lost his feature back btw, and now has new guys he has to learn running routes.... Losing Jake Long is much worse than gaining any of the guys we did in FA. We are really going to see where Tannehill is at I guess.... -
Grimes, Vollmer, Winston, Abraham...hope to get at least one of them.
About Long, there's no denying now they messed that pick up. We got two complete seasons out of a #1 pick who ends up on a different team at the end of his conract. Not a great way to use a #1 pick.dolfan22 likes this. -
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If Martin goes to LT i'd like Watson, if not maybe draft Bakhtiari or Jason Pugh. Jake Long wasn't the niftiest guy or prettiest, most agile LT, but he sure got the job done when healthy. I always remember seeing him on tv before the draft doing agility drills in shorts, and he could move for a big man, and was surprisingly v-shaped and athletic looking. Somewhat reminiscient of LAne Johnson to me, but thicker with more muscle. He'll never have Johnson's feet, but Johnson will never have Jake Long's power. I'm sorry to see him go, bottom line. When healthy he was the rock of that OL, and probably the spiritual leader as well. On track for the HOF after the 1st 3 years before the injuries kicked in and considered wither the best LT in football or 2nd best right behind Joe Thomas, bottom line. Heck of a player, and he will be missed. -
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2...rgo-surgery/yOZ5eom6eI7ipEHgni4a9H/story.htmlDa 'Fins likes this. -
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There are rumors coming out of Indy that Bess is the wr Irsay has been discussing on twitter. Some of their local beat writers are speculating on that now, whereas yesterday national speculation was it would be Cruz.
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