He's a phenom in th run defense. He and soliai are the best dt combo in the league. He is still our main priority IMO. Our run defense needs to stay put.

 

Both Starks and Smith have faded down the stretch. Two of our biggest FA's. Makes you question how much they are worth.

 

I thought I saw Odrick get his sack today from the interior?..that's two in consecutive weeks..maybe he can use those hands he has in there more effectively.

 

Smith will get a contract just because the prospect of finding 2 CBs in one offseason is insane enough, let alone a third.

 

I know he gets a lot of flack and seems to zone out for one or two plays a game, but we could do a lot worse than him. I think he gets hosed on a lot of the tick tack PI calls because of his size, so hopefully that will calm down in a couple years. All I have to say is we better not break the bank for him. I'd also try to sign him for around 3-4 years, give him a large signing bonus (to utilize our crazy cap room this year) and a small salary (to increase our cap room the next couple years).

 

Let him go and move Odrick over and have Vernon rotate all over the line and draft a DE with the first pick.

 

I have to wonder if those two were playing for contracts they thought they would be offered during the season, and when they didn't get them, their play went downhill.

Contrast that with Brian Hartline, who is similarly in a contract year but has played well throughout, and Reggie Bush, who at least has given consistent effort throughout.

Perhaps that should be the measure of whom to keep around. If you played well throughout your contract year, you must really want to be a Miami Dolphin. If you "quit" sometime along the way, perhaps it reveals that you're all too content with playing elsewhere.

I say let Starks go, plug in Odrick, and spend the money elsewhere. Let Smith go as well. There's no room on this team for slackers. I'll take a high-effort, lower ability player over Smith anyday.

 

I don't think Miami can afford to let Smith go. Were already dreadfully thin at CB and I don't think Smith will command a lot of money.

 

Also you have to take into account the huge number of snaps those two have been playing all year. I don't have the exact numbers but I remember, I think it was CK, posting that they had tripled their snap count from last year - if I remember correctly. Like a running back getting 30 carries a game, that eventually wears you down.

 

All depends on what the team is going to do with Marshall. Back injuries are tricky things. We may have to re-sign Smith and dump Marshall's contract. Honestly though I wouldn't rush it. I'd analyze whose likely to make it to Free Agency...and what Smith's agent is trying to get. Might be able to upgrade on Smith for the same cash if his agent gets greedy.

Plus I think this draft were going heavy on skill positions. DE (1st round..quite a few nice ones), WR's, TE's and DB's will probably dominate our picks.

 

please. Smith has been no more inconsistent than Hartline. He's been a better starter as a corner than Brian has as a primary receiver, and of the two, Hartline would be the easier upgrade. Significantly so.

 

Not true. It's been a tale of two halves for Smith. First half, he was a pro bowl quality corner. Second half, he's been bad. Very bad. His career has been like that some what. The opposite is true for Hartline. He's been consistent the entire season. His play hasn't fallen off like Smith's has

However Shouright, I disagree on letting both Starks and Smith go. Especially Smith. There both talented players, and the only one with consistency issues is Smith. Letting them go would hurt more than it would help.

 

WADR, how is our primary receiver having 1 TD on the season, a dropped TD today, a 0 yard game, 17 yard game, 34 yard game, and a 1 catch on 9 targets game considered any more consistent than Smith, especially when the passing defense has been better than the passing offense?
Just b/c Smith's good performances aren't as "tangible" b/c they don't involve yards, I don't think it's fair to call him less consistent than Hartline. Any missed INT opportunities should be looked at no worse than every missed TD or missed big play Hartline has left on the field like the open field ankle tackle Brian couldn't break against San Fran for a long TD. Furthermore, Smith had as great a day verse Zona as Hartline did....... and ironically enough it's the only game they hauled in their only TD/INT on the year, except Smith had 2.

During the last 5 games the passing defense has allowed only 207 yards/game and 3 TDs, with 1 TD resulting from a roughing the punter extending Brady's 3 & Out drive. I don't think that happens with Smith being any type of liability or inconsistency to a fault.

 

I love how you think you know how much effort Smith is or isn't giving.

 

In the first 7 games, Hartline caught 33 passes for 555 yards for a 16.8 average. In the last 7 games, Hartline has 34 catches for 447 yards for a 13 average.

He's basically been the same player from start to finish. He has a 3 yard dip in average but the next two games can even that out.

Meanwhile, Sean Smith had 71.2 QB rating when thrown against the first 7 weeks. In the last 6 weeks, 115.3.

Also, a lot of what you posted was irrelevant information.

 

How is it irrelevant? He's the primary corner <put on the toughest coverage assignments> of a very good pass defense the past 5 weeks. He might not be performing at an All Pro level the 2nd half of the year but to call him less consistent than Hartline doesn't make much sense. If he were actually performing at a 115.3 QBR level then opposing QBs would be torching & exploiting him left and right to a greater tune than 3 total TDs in 5 games and 207 yards/game.

 

You posted random game logs of Brian Hartline and compared our offense vs our defense when that isn't the comparison here.
The comparison is Smith vs Hartline. Smith has regressed while Hartline hasn't.

 

Guess it depends on your definition.
Hartline had 3 100+ yard games during the first 8 games..... but hasn't broken 84 since.

455 yards through the first 4 games
547 yards over the last 10 games

First 8 games: 9.5 avg yards/target
Since then: 7.7 avg yards/target

Not sure how that's not considered regressing.

 

Sure. Whatever you say.

 

How does Smith's 115.3 QBR break down. Just curious considering a DB's QBR can sometimes be misleading.

 

Those stats above from phinsational are an example of how numbers can be manipulated to support a theory. You claim that Hartline has been consistent the whole year, 1st half compared to the 2nd half. But his one huge game has obviously skewed the numbers, and on average he's been half as productive over the last 10 games as he was in the 1st 4. With no TDs at all, and a skimpy 1 on the year.

And your response to all of this, when stats contradicting your ideas are put right under your nose, is "Sure. Whatever you say."

Just watch the games. Stats can be useful, but they can be manipulated to say whatever you want, like a CFO guy manipulating corporate financial docs. Stats quantify plays but rarely if ever qualify the importance of plays, and all you have to do is cut them up a bit differently as phinsational capably did (1st 4 games vs last 10 games as opposed to 1st 7 games vs last 7 games)
to support different theories and arrive at different conclusions.

Hartline is having a good year and deserves credit. But it will be very interesting imo to see how his contract negotiations go, given that he's more of a decent complimentary piece than anything else.

 

get out of here with this brian hartline ****

 

Hartline can at least be a solid #2. Smith at this point I just don't see it. He plays like a lot of teams #4 guy (ie: first of the bench outside corner). But hey....lets continue with your OCD reality skewing Hartline bender. Regardless of how Hartline got it..he still got over 1000 yards which is only the 8th player in Miami history to do. The only history Smith might make is the continuation of how badly our 2nd round draft picks have played.

 

I wonder if Starks is playing somewhat banged up. He's left a few games on occasion and come back in this year. The Indy game sticks out in my mind - ever since that game he's not been his usual self.

 

I don't think you can afford to keep around low-effort players at key positions on a rebuilding team, where the "flavor" of the team culture is still in flux and largely dependent on how those players play. I'd rather have a guy out there who makes a few more mistakes but at least is trying harder.

 

JMO. You're free to have yours as well, of course. :)

 

The game has changed so much in just the last five years even that stats like that are now meaningless IMO. 1000 yards in 1999 isn't even the same as 1000 yards now.

 

I didn't mean it as a shot at you....just so you know. It just struck me as odd that you think Smith is slacking....I really don't. He's still giving it his best (in my eyes) but I wouldn't claim to know if he is or isn't.

He's also made a few important plays....like the 4th down stop that got erased by a BS penalty.

 

I think it's more about his makeup Alex, at least for me it is..his cockiness relative to his game is what i don't like...dude got beat bad on that slant, got completely bailed out by Clemons I believe, would of been an 70 yarder..

 

Not a problem. Unlike some people here, I don't consider pointing out something as representing nothing but my personal opinion to be a "shot." :up:

 

Desides said everything that needs to be said about Sean Smith. He will get paid because we are so damn thin at corner (who's fault is that?)

I let Starks walk. Slide Odrick inside and draft and end and a tackle (to push Odrick).

 

All in all, I'm not sure how people can complain about the pass defense. They are performing solidly, and considering they traded one guy late and lost his replacement for the year, they're performing phenomenally.

Teams throw a lot and they've given up a fair amount of yards, but quarterbacks have a below-average rating against the defense(82.5), have allowed the 6th least passing touchdowns, and the 9th-least completion percentage.

If you gonna hate on Jeff Ireland for the job defensive backs on the field, you've got to praise Kevin Coyle for the results he has gotten.

 

Maybe Starks is overworked/tired? Probably takes a lot of energy week in and week out to try and cover up the deficiencies of your secondary.

 

What he did made no sense. He's randomly picking out games.

I compared the first half of Hartlinr to his second half because it's an equal sample side, and that is when Smith's decline started. He compared 4 games to 10 games because he's throwing random **** on the wall.

And his last numbers about YPT don't indicate that he's inconsistent. His 9.5 YPT is Calvin Johnson territory. He was never going to keep that up. His 8 YPT in the second half is more indicative of who he is.

It's pointless to debate with him on Hartline, especially when he does things like this.

 

Hartline has basically had two great games and **** the bed every other week....it's not hate it's just being realistic.

 

Except you're not being realistic. I'm willing to bet you didn't even look at the game logs. You're going off watching games, which is BS.

You don't gain 1,000 yards on the season with 2 games left off 2 good games. You do it by playing well like Hartline has.