This should make for some heated debate between you guys. I can't wait!!

 

Thanks , truly appreciate all the work and insights.

 

when your O Line is brutal, you tend to not keep your eyes downfield and look to run alot. he needs polish no question, but his physical gifts are also quite impressive.

 

Interesting. If Locker and/or Mallett become a legitamate option at 15 that would be huge for the Dolphins and would almost ensure we get a QB. I posed this question in the Mallett thread, but would getting Harbaugh make you feel better about taking a shot at Locker?

 

I would consider Jake Locker, in the 5th round or thereabouts.

 

It would also be taking a quarterback for the sake of taking a quarterback. IMO, taking Locker in the 1st round would be worse than taking Cam Newton in the 1st round. You are going to have to do just as much breaking him from scrambling around as you would Cam Newtwon, and Jake doesn't have Cam's accuracy down the field. Jake may have a little bit better grasp of reading the field, but he still takes off and runs too much.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Locker assumed to have been the overall #1 pick in last year's draft had he declared?

 

yes he was. It is staggering how much his stock has fallen.

 

I'm not for taking a QB for the sake of taking one. When I say "legitimate options at 15" I mean that the decision makers with the Dolphins identify those players as good enough to be taken that high. If they feel strongly they can turn a guy like Locker into a franchise QB, then I'm all for them taking him there, but only if they feel that way.

 

Its obvious he has the talent, I think the question mark is putting it together on a consistent basis.

 

kinda like Marino?????

 

If that's the case, and I personally doubt it is, then I take issue with that assumption.

 

wow thats a big sig pic

 

Jake Locker No 1 pick

 

If you like locker this would make you happy

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2011.php

 

So basically Walter Football is assuming the Dolphins make a poor, misguided desperation pick at #15.

Given events over the last couple of days...I can see why they'd assume that.

 

Please explain in detail. If you are just looking at stats then you have obviously never watched Locker play. Its ridiculous how bad his WR's cant get open and when they are, they drop the ball. did you see his bowl win against nebraska? thats pretty much been going on all season, the WR's cant get off the jam and drop passes. The O-line is below average. He has very good touch and good arm strength. His accuracy isnt bad either. He has alot a coach can work with and he's someone you can build a team around.

Just explain in detail why you would stay away from Jake Locker in the 1st. Cause I believe he's a first round talent and so does alot of other scouts. How can a QB go from a 1st overall prospect to not even a 1st rounder and recieve so much criticism in one season. His numbers went down but his numbers werent horrible. Numbers arent everything, he wanted to win a Bowl for Washington and he did despite being heavy under dogs against a good Nebraska defense.

 

Do me a favor and don't ever assume when I'm commenting on a player with any kind of confidence level, that I haven't watched him play football. If you don't do that, we'll be fine. If you do that a lot, it's going to tick me off a lot. I'm not blaming you for anything, I don't expect everyone realizes that Simon (Boomer), myself and Richard (conuficus) run a draft website, I'm just letting you know.

As for why I would stay away from him, it is precisely because I *have* watched him play football, a lot of football. I've spent hours skipping to just his pass plays, rewinding, running them in slow motion to see where his eyes are, tallying distances involved in his throws, etc. From that, I have come away believing firmly that Jake Locker does not see the football field. If he is not throwing off his first read, he's in big trouble. He does not throw with anticipation. His accuracy borders on scattershot. He does not have a feel for the pocket. His ball placement on short passes is bad, to the point of throwing uncatchable that are very short distances. His decision-making is often terrible, throwing the ball into crowds of defenders. But, this is often just because he does not read the field well.

He is not mentally tough. You may have a reaction to me saying that, but I can tell you that I have seen him play games where things are not going his way, and he starts playing "give up" football. He'll be under a little bit of pressure and just lob the football up into a crowd of defenders not even bothering to look at where he's throwing. That's giving up, it's the football equivalent of cowardice. Again, you may have a strong reaction to that word, obviously he's a tough guy that has played through injuries and taken a lot of beatings at Washington, but on the field when the game reaches a challenging point, he does not increase his focus, he decreases it.

Overall, I've taken a close look at the cast he has in Washington, and I come away pretty unimpressed by this "his team sucks!" argument. He has a wide receiver by the name of Kearse that can catch the ball and make plays. He has two really good running backs, and an offensive line that can maul people in the run game. It's pretty often that I check on a game of his, and see that they're winning the game DESPITE his lack of pass skills, not because of them. The defense will do their job, the offensive line will block a wicked ground game for two pretty damn good backs. Like I said, Kearse is actually a pretty good receiver. Oh, and he's in a pro style offense.

But let's talk about that last bit for a moment. He's in a pro style offense, and he's been in it for two years, and he's learned nothing in that time. Steve Sarkisian tried to get this guy to read the field, throw with accuracy, throw with anticipation, do the things he'd need to do to run a pro style passing game, and Locker resisted at every step of the way. He never learned, never adapted, and so Sarkisian changed. You've got a guy that wants to run a pro style system and a quarterback that hadn't been running one before, and the quarterback won. But that's not the kind of victory that translates to the pro, it's actually very damning. Sarkisian adjusted and when Locker's at his best is when he's throwing off a bunch of first reads, shorter stuff, and then mixing in moments when he buys time and throws the big bomb, and/or when he runs for like 50-100 yards. Sarkisian put option stuff in the offense, he didn't really want to do that, he had to do it. Whenever a team has limited Locker's ability to run, he went in the tank.

And let me bring up another point. Everyone talks about how incredibly raw Jake Locker is, right? He's not bad, he's just raw. Has anyone bothered to ask the question, WHY is he raw? This is a four year starter, that has had two years in a pro style system...and he's more raw than a first year option quarterback (Cam Newton). He's more raw than a first year spread quarterback (Brandon Weeden). At some point, don't you think you have to ask whether he's raw because he's uncoachable?

All of THAT...is why I wouldn't take him before the 5th round.

 

Oh you have a draft website? Now i am definitely concvinced that Locker isnt worth a 1st round pick (sarcasim)
Sounds like you have done what every other scouts have done and over analyzed Jake Locker.

 

Sounds like you've done what most people who only watch Sportscenter have done and not analyzed him at all.

 

Over-analyzed?! What the hell do you think scouting is?

 

Not saying this is the case here , but there is a saying in scouting we used " paralyss by analysis" ... that was bandied about after mariono's senior season as well.

Again , not saying it is the case for Locker , but at times you can over analyze.

 

Wow. That's the best you can do to defend Jake Locker??? In a previous post, you asked CK why he gave Locker a 5th round grade. He responded with a very detailed explanation. Your reaction is the quote above. Instead of rebutting his conclusions of Locker's play on the field, you mock him for having a draft website and then accuse him of "over analyzing".

If you love debate and Jake Locker, why don't you attack CK's points on the actual merits? Explain to me that CK is wrong about Locker never going through his progressions or how Locker can throw the ball successfully before a WR comes out of his break.

Otherwise, just go away.

 

ehe.

He's wrong because you've seen a few nicely thrown balls on SportsCenter and have a subscription to ESPN The Magazine? Got it.

 

I wrote a whole thread about why I like Locker "Why no love for Locker" and CK didnt give any explanation to why he thinks Locker is a 5th round QB. I wouldnt listen a thing to what CK and Boomer say anyways, their website sucks and its almost comical. 2009 mock draft they had us picking Bradon Pettigrew, like wtf? how dumb. and Every year they are so wrong, its hilarious. Both Loved Troy Smith a few years back, Both didnt think Matt Ryan was worth a 1st overall pick. They both probabaly didnt think Tebow would be playing as well as he has. Guess we'll just see about Locker in a few years. Cant wait to see an updated mock draft soon, I need a good laugh. Stop living in ur parents basement running a stupid website that sucks that only Fins fans know about. Find yourself a girl mate.

and CK had a man crush on Jerry Hughes OLB TCU last years draft. yeah, he's been great with the colts. You were wrong about Hartline too.

 

I also am not a fan of Locker or Mallet. Here is what we should do:

1. Trade down our first rounder, and with the 20-25th pick draft a RB with great speed, moves and the ability to also play the slot WR position: Jacquizz Rodgers.

2. With the 2nd rounder we get for trading down, take a CB like Jimmy Smith of Colorado. Smith is 6'2" and can cover and hit. I think he is the best CB around. I watch all of CU's games as an alum and he would make our secondary so much better.

3. Third round: I think we can use a top notch O-lineman or Center: Kris O'Dowd C, from USC.

4. Fourth round: Colin Kaepernick, QB, Nevada, or Lance Kendricks, TE, Wisconsin.

That's my first day fixer.

 

It is ok to disagree or have a different viewpoint.

To Both Chris and Simon's credit they have readily admitted when they have been wrong on player evaluations. Not that that is the norm , they don't ignore or make excuses.

Zero need to have personal insults as well, perhaps you have no idea that they don't live in "their mom's basements" or that they don't have their own family or a significant other, and if you don't , then DON'T take it in that direction. You may actually be surprised on their real life accomplishments.

Look , you have a big differance of opinion on Locker from both of them. Take some solace in that perhaps.

 

You "wrote a whole thread"? You mean this: http://forums.thephins.com/showthread.php?58030-Why-no-love-for-Locker Your OP had no real football analysis. CK's post details specific flaws in Locker's game. Do you dispute those specific flaws, or do you just want to throw out insults?

 

I don't think we need to be THIS distracted by just another idiot from the idiot factory, do we? I think we've all seen that he's not really worth listening too, so I say why not get back to on-topic discussion?

 

You're right.

 

So then next year your quarterbacks are Chad Henne and Colin Kaepernick?

Oof. That would hurt my soul.

 

I like Jake Locker. I realize he has flaws in his game, but I think he will come off the board well before the 5th round. At times Jake Locker wouldnt have time to get to secondary reads even if he wanted to due to a sieve of an O Line most of the time. I thought he showed tremendous heart and courage in that bowl game vs the Huskers. Took a couple of wicked shots, got back up, and made plays with his legs including running over people and dragging 3 tacklers for a first down. As QB its obvious he needs work and is far from a polished product. In terms of heart, freakish athletic ability for a man his size, theres no doubts there. At least not for me.

 

No offense dude...but they spend a ton of time scouting players, and alot of the time they dont agree with each other...

But just because YOU disagree with what CK says, theres no reason to take such a condescending tone...

Hes a great source of info along with all the others...and has earned the respect, so how bout stowin the attitude

 

Your a first class jackass you know that so do us all a favor and find another site to frequent

 

Off-topic but I love your user name. I think its hilarious lol.

 

well thank you sir.

 

He'll definitely come off the board before the 5th round. But I don't think he will ever succeed as an NFL quarterback. He might make it as purely a part-time Wildcat QB, though.

 

Is the wildcat still breathing? I thought the life support switch had been turned off.

 

Id like to think some NFL mind can find a way to get him on the field and utilize his athletic ability if he fails at qb. If Brad Smith can make an impact for the Jets, I see no reason why a guy who's 230 lbs and runs like a deer cant.