Wake calls him ''Gase''

not a big fan of it, but Gase is a unique bird.

what I do know is, he has a clear vision of what he wants, and he's not the kid of guy whos afraid to do it his way..

 

When Gase type coaches work out you get the Seahawks off the last few years. When they don't you get the Seahawks of 2018.

 

I think that's his point.

BB hasn't had his method fail yet. Carol has, however.

 

I know.

 

you know a coach doesn't go around telling his players what he wants to be called, its kind of an organic thing..

the interesting study here is, and I've been told not to worry, but you know no one is going to go around saying ''hey belicek''

I think its an interesting topic, I dont have the answers, it just makes me uncomfortable..but like Amendola said, as long as the players want to play hard for you, i dont care what they call him.

 

I tend to not like this approach. Simply put, Gase is not one of the guys.

Part of his job is determining roster cuts.

Guys with new contracts like Amendola are the bell of the ball now, but in a few years, it would certainly be in Gase's best interests to replace him with a younger, cheaper talent. Just look at Landry.

Most experienced players know that this is a business. Players get cut, a player may get traded to fill another need (quite possibly to a city/franchise that they don't want to go to (again ask Landry), players could lose their job because of roster numbers/injuries at other positions, players can lose their job because they were the leftovers of a previous regime, players that are well liked get cut.

Gase is one of the guys until he makes a decision that makes him "not one of the guys." Once that happens, feelings get hurt, players start taking sides, and discontent occurs.

I'd much prefer an obvious hierarchical structure than a facade of equality and being just one of the guys.

 

carrolls a players coach that relies heavily on his coordinators. motivator absolutely. he jumps around chews gum like a family guy character but x's and o's? nah

every time that guys got a head set on all he's doing is listening and chewing gum.

carroll wishes he could call a/put an offensive gameplan together like adam gase.

 

Give me a Belichick, Shula, Landry, Noll, or Walsh any day of the week. These were coaches who
were the boss and the players knew it. They didn’t try to be, “one of the boys”. They simply expected the players to perform each Sunday and they didn’t care if their players liked them or not.

These coaches also all won multiple Super Bowls and while Gase might want to be “one of the boys”,
he hasn’t even won a single playoffs game as an NFL head coach.

 

I wonder how Gase feels about Amendola saying this to the press.

I do feel like Gase is comfortable in his own skin, doesn't take sh## from players and is going to do it his way and be himself in the process, thats why this is probably a non issue.

dude likes to talk sh## to coaches and players..its a new type of style..

 

I don't really know that an NFL coach has to really impress every second of the waking day upon their team that they're the guy making big balls phone calls, but this **** has already bit the team in the *** with Gase's friendship with Jay Cutler compromising his and the team's judgement.

 

Every coach is different. When Tampa hired Dungy in the mid 90's he did not fit the mold for a HC, as he was very mild mannered compared to his peers, but he made it work. All that matters is if they can win with their philosophy and approach.

Defensively Carrol created a unique scheme at USC which transferred very successfully to the NFL. That's where his X&O expertise lies. Other than that, the dude's a fruitcake.

 

I think that whatever the coach's personality is, he needs to just be himself, or it isn't going to work. That may mean that he fails one place before he succeeds somewhere else. But he isn't going to keep the locker room if he's full of hot air and pretending to be someone that he's not.

 

How many responses are going to be back in my day so and so coached with an iron fist that he used to beat the players with until morale improved. It's a new time with new approaches. Whatever gets the wins I'm on board with.

 

I know a lot of you won’t like this but I hate that’s he’s one of the guys. Players may respect him but I don’t believe thy fear him like they do Bill.

Bill will hold you to task and if you step out of line he will set an example of you. Your buddy will say that’s ok don’t let it happen again!

There needs to be a line and it seems Bills way has worked for oh 15 years or so..

 

It was especially effective after finding the GOAT QB.

 

Well after the purge, trading out Ajayi, as well as sacking a bunch of assistant coaches this off season anyone who isn’t scared of Gase is an idiot. He has shown quite a ruthless streak when it comes to doing what it takes to improve the team.

At the dnd of the day different personalities have different ways of leading. Napoleon for example gave wide latitude to his subordinates and trusted them to act intelligently, Wellington on the other hand was a notorious micro-manager.

What buys you respect is continuing success. If Belichek put together a pair of 6-10 seasons all the complainers and back-biters would come out in force.

 

Agree with that. Also, Shula, Landry & Noll got run out of their jobs by not changing their style of coaching that worked in the 70's. Belicheck seems to be the one that has a similar style but gives Brady & Gronk a lot of leeway (although reports differ on that). Every coach should have their own style because if they try & impose someone elses style, the players figure that out pretty quickly and it doesn't work. Even if he doesn't show it on a day to day basis, they all know that Gase will get rid of them if they step out of line or don't believe in his way.

 

I think you got it. It's not really about a "chosen method" as it is them just being themselves. That'll ingratiate you as a human much more than subscribing to a particular coaching personality.

Philbin always struck me as a fake tough guy/authoritarian and I think the players felt that too.

 

I agree with that and he knows how to strike when the iron is hot. Cause he was doing some real shady stuff at usc and it was closing in on him.

 

You spelled "cheating" wrong. And defense. The Pats have never had the GOAT QB.

 

This 1000%.

Fake will get you nowhere. If you are yourself and actually know your **** people will follow you. Gase has to be the smartest man in the room and be himself. He could wear a clown suit to work and as long as he's the smartest man in the room and is sincere with people he'll get respect.

 

Interesting, you want to give credit to the Patriots defense, compared to all other multi-SB winning QBs the Patriots defense is by far the worst. In Montanas 4 successful runs at the SB, his defense gave up 13 ppg. Bradshaw: 13. Staubach: 7. Elway: 15. Griese: 9. Peyton: 16. Eli: 15 Aikman: 17 Ben: 17 Plunkett: 13 Starr: 15

Brady? 19ppg.

The 12 QBs to win multiple SBs have won a combined 32 Superbowls. The losing side scored 21 or more in just 8 of those wins (25%). 1 for Montana, 1 for Elway, 1 for Bradshaw, 1 for Big Ben.

4 for Tom Brady.

In fact, in all 52 Superbowls, the losing side has only scored 21 or more 15 times (29%). The losing side has scored 21 or more in 4 of the Patriots 5 wins (that's 80%, nearly three times the league average). Included in that are 1st and 2nd biggest 4th quarter comebacks in SB history.

There's a pretty good argument that, of all the HOF QBs, Brady is more responsible for his teams titles than anyone else. Don't let your hatred of Brady blind you from his position in history.

 

Well again, if the team is cheating, nothing that Brady does matters. Cheating invalidates everything, no matter how good or talented the team and players are.

 

The old 70s Phins pulled pranks on Shula and it seemed to be just fine. Look as long as the players respect his position and authority and that of the coaching staff then being a players coach works. But if you kiss players asses and give special treatment to some players then you’re in trouble. Consistentsy and understanding from all players and staff that there is a line not to be crossed and work is work rules are rules and there’s a time for play but the line is that everyone has a job to do and when it’s time to go to work you work. Every style has a shelf life and the most successful long term coaches can adapt to the players they have. As much as Carroll’s style has gone stale in Seattle so can the stern disciplined style of others. Both styles have worked so let’s see how this goes with Gase and hope for the best results we all want. :)

 

Last I checked Goodell hasn't stripped them of any SuperBowls and unfortunately fans on forums don't get any say in the matter. In the history books of the NFL Brady's and the Patriots accomplishments are as valid as Dan Marino's 420 touchdowns.

 

I like Gase even more after reading that. IMO, being one of the guys doesn’t mean there won’t be acceptable play standards in place and accountability.

 

I have two major problems with people discounting the Patriots success due to cheating.

1) There's a double standard because no one seems to apply the same standard to other teams, QB's or coaches when they do it. For example, Montana flatly admitted that his SB winning 49ers cheated (or skirted the rules) to win, saying famously that "If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying". So why doesn't anyone here discount Montana's success when it's brought up? At a minimum, anyone discounting the Patriots success due to "cheating" should be consistent.

2) There's no evidence that the cheating we know NE was guilty of could've been responsible for the statistical rarity they are in NFL history (only the 49ers under Montana and Young from 1981-1998 match NE's success). Jimmy Johnson said he learned to video tape signals (the same thing NE was convicted of) from the Chiefs, and that this was commonplace among coaches. More importantly he said he didn't think it helped them. Steeler's chairman Dan Rooney said he considers the "tapes of our coaching staff during games" to be a "non-issue" because he didn't think it had any impact on the result.

As far as I'm concerned, Belichick is one of the greatest coaches in NFL history (others for me are Lombardi, Shula, Walsh), and Brady is one of the greatest QB's in NFL history (others for me are Peyton, Montana, Marino, Young and Rodgers).

 

You are free to believe whatever you like, and feel whatever way you like, just as I am. If I live to be 100, I'll never for a day give the Patriots any credit whatsoever.

 

Never said you aren't free to believe whatever you like. But will you at least be consistent and similarly discount Montana's success? Or is there something special about cheating if it's done by the Patriots?

 

I've always felt that Montana was overrated. But I had not previously heard about cheating allegations towards the 80s 49ers. I guess I'll look it up.

I do know fully well about how the mid 90s 49ers and late 90s Broncos cheated with the salary cap, paying players under the table, and feel that all of those titles are worthless. Also disgusted that the league swept it all under the table.

 

Yeah, in Montana's case he admits it himself:
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/joe-montana-on-patriots-if-you-aint-cheating-you-aint-trying/

Jerry Rice also admits to using stickum and says "everyone did it":
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/07/jerry-rice-admits-to-cheating-says-everyone-did-it/

Here's a nice site that tries to keep track of cheating for all teams:
http://yourteamcheats.com/

And just for the video taping stuff.. we'd probably have to put on the black list Jimmy Johnson (admitted it himself), Tony Dungy (also admitted it), and Marty Schottenheimer. And if you believe them, most coaches did it.

 

If a person just looks at Super Bowls Nick Foles > Marino. Brad Johnson > Dan Fouts. Trent Dilfer > Jim Kelly

Your argument ends there, seriously, but I'll go further.

The Pats defenses over the last 18 seasons have been some of the best in the league. In their 8 Super Bowl appearances their defense ranked: 5, 1, 2, 4, 15, 8, 1, 5...They won with the 5, 1, 2, 8, 1 respectively, and lost with the 4, 15, 5. You're trying to compare different eras of offense to today's. Won't work.

However, was cheating responsible for this? Who knows. I'm sure it helped. It most definitely helped a barely starting, skinny, athletically challenged QB named Brady.

 

It wasn't just videotaping. And we'd know all about what exactly happened if Goodell didn't destroy the evidence.

The guy who started that website is a Pats fan...lol.

 

What was the average points scored for those QBs? Average scoring today is what, like 28 or something? Also ignoring what defenses could do to the receivers etc. You can't simply pull up points allowed in a vacuum and act like it tells you anything. The Patriots have ridden top 5 defenses to almost all their championships.

 

21.7 ppg in 2017. Link for average points scored per season:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/

It's been relatively steady across NFL history, but not completely so depending on the argument it may matter a lot or not as much. For reference, a quick way to adjust is to take points scored in one year, divide by the league average points scored in that year, then multiply by league average points scored in a reference year.

Example: In 1981, the 49ers gave up 15.6 ppg. The league average was 20.7. Divide 15.6/20.7 = 0.7536. Multiply that by league average ppg in a target year (let's say 2017 where it was 21.7). So you get 0.7536*21.7 = 16.35 instead of 15.6.

A bit more sophisticated would be to calculate standard deviations above/below the mean (z-scores). Turns out the standard deviations per year are relatively stable too from 3-5 ppg but on a year-by-year basis the z-scores might be quite different.

Regardless, there's a bigger problem here. It doesn't look like mooseguts' stats are correct. For example..

In Montana's 4 successful SB runs the 49ers defense gave up 15.6 ppg in 1981, 14.2 ppg in 1984, 18.4 ppg in 1988, and 15.8 in 1989, at least if I'm seeing that correctly from these links:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1981/opp.htm

 

I don't believe I said SB> over everything. Included in that list are Big Ben, Eli Manning, Payton Manning who are part of the same era as Brady and who won multiple SB's.

Yet despite all those top defensive regular season rankings the Pat's sure do give up a lot of 21+ points in the Super Bowl. Even in today's era 21+ point given up is still a lot. Hell the Giants 17th and 25th ranked defense held the Pats to 14 and 17 points which includes keeping the greatest offense in NFL history to the aforementioned 14. So no reason those high ranking Patriot defenses should be giving up 21+ points so often in the SB regardless of era.

So did Bill Belichick help Brady in college as well? Where he routinely made comebacks earning the nick name captain comeback in college notably against Penn St and Alabama as a senior tossing 4 TD's against Alabama in the Orange Bowl. Compiled a 20-5 record as the starting QB with a 2-0 bowl record against the #11 and #5 team in the country.

 

Oh I see how I worded it. I meant the entire playoff run including the SB not JUST the SB. So for the 49ers for example they 3 games in 1981 gave up 24ppg, 3 games 1984 8.6, 3 games 1988 9.3, and 3 games 1989 8.6=12.6 round up 13 ppg in their playoff SB run.

 

Don’t forget Jimmy Johnson. He had all his players on pins and needles at all times.