Good to see you around FFIC!

I'm of the mind that if Billy Turner struggles next week against the Bears front (Ego Ferguson, Jay Ratliff, Eddie Goldman, Will Sutton, Jarvis Jenkins - all in all, not a bad group for a 3-4 team) then I'll worry.

 

Suh and Turner...talk about opposite ends of the spectrum. Love, Love, Love Suh. What's not to like about him? Best player we've had since Dan Marino.

Imo Miami should pony up and sign Mathis whatever the cost for this year. I get not wanting to play a stop gap player big $, but that is all Turner appears to be as well and have to protect your investments. It would be a disappointment if he is the starting G next year. Considering Miami plays Bills, Jets and Texans that means he will be matched up with defensive lines in 5 games that may be every bit as good as Miami's.

So much focus on the improved WR group this offseason may have overshadowed how productive Cameron might be.

McCain and Lippet appear to be great picks. With the pressure being put on QBs by the DL a couple of ball-hawks could propel Miami to the top of the list in turnover margin. Turnover margin and Wins-Losses go hand-in-hand. Hoping Taylor or Davis would have developed to become quality starters, but not surprised since remnants from Ireland's last draft. 2013 may go down as one of all-time worst Dolphin drafts with the exception of Jenkins. It appears Ross has done a good job righting the ship in the front office.

 

I think one thing that's not being taken into consideration with Mathis is that he's pretty much exclusively a LG. Seemingly in the last week or so Jamil Douglas has tightened his grasp on that spot. Douglas also played LG (3 years) and LT (1 year) while at ASU. So even if you sign Mathis, you're still probably not upgrading the RG spot and your putting a progress-stopper in front of Douglas. What's the plan at RG if you sign Mathis? 4-way competition between Turner, Thomas, Douglas and Linkenbach?

 

Legit point. I think Mathis would be a significant upgrade over Douglas at LG this year. Nothing wrong with throwing Douglas into the mix for competing at RG. It would be an easy transition for Douglas to slide back into LG next year or the year after if proves to be a mainstay.

Reports are Miami is interested in Mathis, but the front office wants it to be at their price. I respect that, but as a fan I'm okay with Ross spending a few more million if it upgrades a weak unit. Since training camp is heating up and preseason games are about to get under way injuries and poor performances by other teams will likely increase the demand for Mathis. I would he is wearing a Dolphin uniform this year (and next if it works out) than another.

Personally, I don't see a downside to signing him.

 

That's all well and good, but you still haven't solved the RG spot.

 

Signing Mathis provides a significant improvement to the OL as a UNIT which is what the OL is. This isn't just about blocking Suh in practice. Mathis can hold his own which Douglas may or may not be able to against some of the DL's Miami will be facing. Realistically Miami will probably not be able to "solve" the RG spot this year. It's quite possible Douglas would be an upgrade over Turner at RG. Regardless, with the left side of the line solid (assuming Albert is healthy) Miami may need to double team on the right side and utilize a back to help quite a bit.

There is no guarantee with a rookie at LG and an under-performing sophomore RG Miami won't have to significant leaks in their line. And if Mathis is signed in the next week by another club willing to ante up, then what?

So are you saying that Miami shouldn't sign an elite player like Mathis when by all indications it would significantly improve their OL because it may not provide the perfect solution at RG? There won't be a perfect solution this year.

 

Not true..Ronin is point on! Patience...We do not know how the online will actually play until Albert is back..Jamil Douglas will end up being a steal and will do great lined up next to Albert...Why would we stop his progress and move him into the RG battle..He has played on the left for his whole career to date...I feel imho the biggest mistake our coaches have made as far as online position is drafting guys and immediately change their positions...often to the opposite side..not the way to go about imo. Also, Turner will be a much better player as a result of facing Suh all of OTA's and training camp. The way that Suh has worked with Phillips I imagine that Suh is also giving pointers to Billy Turner that will help him play well for us, just like Wake has been doing with James since last year. Honestly, I am not worried. The line will learn to play TOGETHER as a unit and the Chemistry will get better with every game. In the NFL world, Pouncey will also be giving help to Turner to stop some of the League's better units..Put the Rolaids away..it will be OK.:up:

 

I think Albert is a huge question mark going into the season. Even if he does get back into the lineup, I really don't see anyway he will be able to play close to the level he did prior to having the type of injury he suffered last year.
Jake Long was never the same dominant LT after suffering a few injuries which were no where close to the injury Albert is attempting to come back from. I expect once Albert does return, the Dolphins will be lucky if he returns to 60-70 percent of what he was in the first half of last season.

In fact it won't surprise me if the Dolphins use their first round draft pick next year on a LT if a decent one is still on the board when it is their turn to select.

I'm glad you seem to be okay with the offensive line, but personally I really don't see where they have upgraded the overall OL and I still think this OL continues to be the biggest area of concern on the entire roster. Just as it has been for the last several years.

 

Not a single prospect comes into the league looking dominant. The NFL is about work ethic and training. More than any other I can think of, the O-line positions require mental (and physical) toughness. That's something which is developed in people. We're not talking about a measurable that is God-given so to speak. If the team can't develop O-line talent in-house without spending 1st round picks, it's a coaching problem.

This team has gone after several offensive lineman in the last few years to try and solve the Guard issue. If they can't point to any one of them being successful, that's a major mark against the coaching staff. At some point, you have to stop hoping you luck into a Hall of Famer and take some average kid and find a way to make it work.

I've said this time and time again but we're staring at a line in which 3 of the 5 players are 1st round picks and Jamil Douglas looks like a promising contributor. Thomas and Turner have had a year to do nothing but get in shape. If they're not ready physical it's a coaching problem that isn't going to be solved with more draft picks.

For me as a fan, I'm hoping they roll with Turner. If the kid pulls his boots up the team will be in good shape. If he fails miserably, the coaching staff will get re-arranged which is also a good thing.

What I don't want to have happen is this staff of coaches continuing to draft mid-rounders and leaving them on the bench doing nothing until the team is hemorrhaging at the position at which point the players are thrown in under increased scrutiny and ridiculous expectations.

You throw an inexperience guy in against Suh and he's going to get rag-dolled. What do you expect? However, there's nothing that says this team can't win despite that and by the end of the season display decent, stable Guard production.

 

The OL situation is frustrating, but we're in win-now mode. Look at our acquisitions. Philbin is on the hot seat.

Personally, I'd take one SB win over any number of "good" seasons. If Mathis is what it takes to remove a huge uncertainty at guard and give us a realistic chance to go deep in the playoffs, then do it!

We still have time to decide on Mathis though (thankfully at his asking price no one else is biting). But if things look bad at guard after the first few preseason games, we better fix that hole by the beginning of the season and not just hope things turn out right by the end of the year.

 

Totally agree. Only response I have to that is we're on the outside so we don't know what the FO knows. They better know what they're doing here. I'm guessing they think they'd get wind of a Mathis signing (with another team) in time to swoop in.

 

Every team is in win now mode. The reality is there are a handful of teams that have a legitimate chance of winning a super bowl and the rest of the league is rebuilding, trying to catch up. Outside of lacking a franchise QB, there are very few teams that are one player away. The teams with the most complete talent will win the Super Bowl. That's why managing the cap and allowing players to develop is so important.

We have some young guys at G that I want to see given the chance to develop into quality starters or better. Throwing Mathis in there may be the solution or it may be throwing a bandaid on a gaping wound.

 

Haven't been paying much attention this summer. Could Evan Mathis be a fix for Billy Turner? If Turner struggles any more, they might have to meet Mathis halfway on price.

 

By "win-now" mode, I mean a team that legitimately thinks it is one or a small number of key players (probably FA's at this stage) away from going deep in the playoffs. Probably more than half the league isn't in that category. You yourself say most are "rebuilding", which isn't what I'd describe as "win-now".

Our young players at guard can develop without being thrown to the wolves anyway. A lot of good players on the OL are brought along slowly, so that shouldn't be an issue.

The only question is the cap. One thing that helps is Mathis would be a short-term signing (not like Suh). And the only tricky year is 2016. And 2016 is problematic only if you assume we keep Albert, Grimes AND Wake. Just assume we can draft a replacement for one of them (and you have to draft well anyway to stay competitive long-term) and signing Mathis isn't impossible cap-wise.

 

I truly don't think there's such a thing as a team being an all-pro guard away from the Super Bowl.

I do think there's such a thing as a team being an average guard away from the Super Bowl however.

 

Probably true, and we're really in need of "average" or "decent" at this moment. It doesn't have to be Mathis.. but who else is out there?

 

Are we basing this on how an average or decent guard would block Suh?

 

Awesome post Greg, I have been saying the same thing over and over until I am blue in the face...almost, lol...I know of no team that has 1st round draft picks starting at every position on the OLine...most are developed..especially guards...Also, I am not sure about exact percentages, but I would bet about half 1st round OLineman bust..Douglas will be pretty good this year and Billy Turner is learning better moves and how to get the jump on DT and get the most leverage...He is learning this from Suh and I bet that Suh is working with him and helping him along...Patience is a Virtue. The glass is always at Minimum, 1/2 full at my house.:yes:

 

If the consensus becomes we have an "average" LG and RG after watching them go up against Suh, then I'm fine with that. I don't think that's the perception right now. One problem in evaluating Turner is that he doesn't have a body of work in the NFL that we can go back to and say.. see, against most other DL he's fine.

 

We won't have much of an idea until preseason. From what I have read Turner holds his own runblocking, however has problems with pass blocking. Especially against Suh. As do everyone else.

However I do not really know because I do not trust the talking heads when it comes to line play.

 

Yeah agree.. would be great if we had video to see ourselves. Anyway, if after the first few preseason games it looks bad.. FO better impress with a Mathis signing. I'm sick of waiting till next year!..

 

We are, one of the youngest teams in the league....Imho, one of the worst things that can happen is too blow all of our cap, just for 1 year? I know that Wake & Grimes are not getting any younger but hopefully they can play long enough to win it all. However, I do not think that it is anymore important for them to win it all, than it was for Marino, Taylor,& Thomas, along with many other of the greats that have played here.Again, no need to Panic here...I remember when La'el Collins became an UDFA not one time during that courtship did I read about Mathis. When Collins curiously went with Dallas, the blame game started, and eventually a lot of us(not I), once again jumped on the Evan Mathis Train. All I am hoping for is that this line get's a real solid chance to work together, play together, and become an above average unit to great. I have not been this upbeat about our online in many years.

 

One thing I think people are forgetting about the whole if we signed Evan Mathis deal, yes he's exclusively a LG and that's not going to solve the RG situation but.. that would free up Mike Pouncey to help with Turner or whoever is the starter at RG. Mathis wouldn't require help as often if at all. Just something I was thinking about and also adds extra depth, I'd rather have Thomas and Turner or Douglas as the backups then just Dallas Thomas if one of the others goes down.

Edit: Another thing if Albert doesn't make it through the entire season or isn't ready by week 1, wouldn't you rather have Mathis next to whoever is at LT than anyone else. I still think we can get by perfectly fine with what we have, but I do think signing Mathis would be a big upgrade all around.

 

I've said this before, but the cap situation is only bad in 2016 for us with the type of relatively short-term contract (at least in terms of guaranteed money) Mathis is likely to get no matter where he signs ASSUMING we keep all key contracts, specifically Albert, Grimes and Wake.

But imagine for a moment we continue drafting relatively well (it at least looks like our last 2 drafts were at worst average and probably more on the better side). Imagine we can draft exactly ONE replacement for Albert, Grimes or Wake. Keep in mind we have to draft such a replacement in any case in the next year or two as age is one thing no NFL player can ultimately beat.

If we draft just one such replacement, our cap is fine (barely, at least on paper). There's no blowing up the cap if you assume we have a decent draft. And as a GM I'd actually make plans for the future based on the assumption one can draft decently.

 

Thank you Brad, I do understand where our cap is at. As long as we have Hickey, then I am confident that our drafts will be good along with the UDFA's that he picks up...We will just have to agree to disagree and see how it plays out, which is cool...I just want our team to bring home the Trophy, but we will not win it or lose it because of Evan Mathis. I do however, respect everyone of y'all's opinions.:up:

 

all i know is if our oline doesnt produce in the preseason we better be super aggressive signing players who are cut. we should be able to land at least one servicable lineman off the waiver wire, especially since they are guards. I dont think we can judge our oline until they play other teams in the preseason. we have a monster dline. how many are they gonna face as good as ours

 

Just the Bills, Jets, and...................the Seahawks, if they make it to the Super Bowl.:lol:

 

I'm hesitant to sign Mathis without seeing Douglas and Turner play against live opposition first, especially for the amount of money Mathis reportedly wants. I also don't trust the coaching staff to find the best "unit" as you say. They made a serious mess of it last year putting Pouncey at RG. They made an even bigger mess of it by not playing Jason Fox at LT once Branden Albert went down, putting Dallas Thomas at RT and rotating Daryn Colledge and Shelley Smith at LG when they should have left Shelley Smith alone there.

Again, if Billy Turner struggles at RG against the Bears front, which on paper looks pretty decent for a 3-4 team, then I'd consider signing Mathis and hoping Douglas or, gulp, Dallas Thomas can play RG. But, going back just a year, Billy Turner was probably the best overall guard in the preseason for Miami at RG. I'm not ready to give up on him just yet just because Ndamukong Suh thrashes him from time to time. Now, if guys like Eddie Goldman, Will Sutton, Jarvis Jenkins, et al from the Bears are screaming past him, that's a different story.

 

Why do you say that Mathis is exclusively a LG, because he's a good pulling guard and that's where he's played? Maybe he'd be just fine as a RG so that RT can take advantage of his pass blocking ability:

According to NFL right guard Geoff Schwartz on Twitter, teams undervalue the right guard role.

"[You] must have a great pass blocking RG so the QB can step up to allow Ts to ride DEs around the edge," Schwartz said. "Most QBs are right handed and slowly drift right without knowing it. Most schemes slide left 75% of the time to protect the blind side. The RG and RT [are] most often on an island."

http://www.patspulpit.com/2014/10/1...right-guard-why-every-patriots-right-guard-is

I think that Mathis can play in a ZBS or conventional styled OL, RG, LG, whatever G. He's a great athlete (had one of the best combine performances of all-time), plays physical, great pass blocker, extremely productive and efficient, and he's smart. Billy Turner is a heck of an athlete, but his mental lapses and inexperience might get RT killed. We should just sign Mathis already, one of the best Guards in the NFL to shore up our weakest position. Simple logic that makes sense to me.

 

Because that's where he's played most of his career and that's where he has been the most successful at (two time pro bowler 2013/2014, one time first team all pro 2013, three time pro football focus all pro 2011/2012/2013). Could he be as good on the right side, maybe so, but you can't expect that. You don't move an elite type player out of his normal position and expect the same results.. look at Mike Pouncey last season. Would you move Albert to the right side or Wake to the other end and expect their level of play to remain the same? Just because you think he'd be more of an upgrade at RG over LG doesn't mean that's where he should play, he'd still be a huge upgrade at LG.

Also in my opinion Billy Turner is the best guard we have on the team, even if he has had his own share of struggles. We've all seen Thomas fail miserably at guard and at tackle he wasn't any better (that's where he gave up all of his sacks). I saw Douglas struggle at camp too, including getting bull rushed and pancaked flat on his a** by Earl Mitchell. Mitchell isn't a bad player by any means, but Turner is going against Suh everyday and no one can say Earl is at his level.

 

Moving a Center to Guard is far different from moving a LG to RG. I'd be comfortable with Mathis at RG and if he's signed I'd consider moving the rookie Jamil Douglas to RG as well, not ideal but it is what it is. Bottom line, you get Mathis in house and then figure out where he, Douglas and Turner stack up.

 

You do realize Pouncey played RG in college though right, including the year they won the national championship in 2009 (also some time on defensive line his freshman year, center his senior season). But anyways I agree with your last sentence.

 

nice article, but you think the Sun Sentinel would spell check their articles online.