Like many fans across the league, I think that the preseason is way too long. I think that teams need to start taking it upon themselves to shorten the preseason. Our team, in particular, is relying heavily on aging veterans and injury prone players. Some of these players should not see the field until the regular season, and some of these players should have very limited preseason playing time. I think Madden tricks people into thinking that there are going to be vast improvements being made in the preseason, but in truth, I think many of these vets are what they are. I think that there is something to be said for rookies and younger players getting live reps, but the old adage states, "the best ability is availability."
Here are players I do not need to see much of in the preseason:
Frank Gore - I would follow the model of Ladainian Tomlinson and give him the entire preseason off.
Cam Wake - No need to play in the preseason. Maybe a series in the 3rd game.
Kiko Alonso - Very limited. One series in the 2nd game and a quarter in the 3rd preseason season game.
Danny Amendola - Limited. Two series in the 2nd game and two series in the 3rd preseason game.
Robert Quinn - Limited. Two series in the 2nd game and two series in the 3rd preseason game.
Josh Sitton - Semi-limited. I would keep him on the field as long as RT is on the field.
Xavien Howard - Very limited. This has nothing to do with him being injury prone. We just can't afford to get him hurt. He is too important to our team. I'd play him a quarter in the 3rd game.
Reshaad Jones - Very limited. Again, this has nothing to do with his play. I think that the best way to give Minkah live reps is put him out there as a starter across from McDonald. He is too important to the team. I'd play him a quarter in the 3rd game.
On the other hand, here are some players that probably need some preseason reps:
RT - I think he needs some live reps. Try and have him leave on a high note with a positive drive.
Mike Gesicki - I would give him extended reps. I would not call a single pass blocking situation for him while RT is on the field. When the backups are out there, I would call a ton of blocking plays. He seems to be growing, and I think live reps would help.
Charles Harris - I would give him a ton of PT. The kid is a hard worker, but in all honesty, he might be the 4th or 5th best DE on the roster. Give him the opportunity to move up on the depth chart.
Lippett, Tankersley, and McTyer - I say we really let these guy's on the field performance decide our depth chart. Let 'em battle it out.
Kalen Ballage - I suspect that barring injury, he will have a limited role his freshman year. Now may be the time to give him his live looks. I'd play him a lot.
Raekwon McMillan - He needs live reps but NOT on special teams.
Devante Parker - It sickens me to say it, but I think he needs the reps. I just don't think that he's where he needs to be at the moment. Fingers crossed that he doesn't get hurt.
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I’m good with 3 preseason games.
Teams can treat that 3rd one like they they use the 4th one.
I want to see Mink get a ton of reps as well as Jerome Baker.
Ryan? I think it depends on how he looks the first couple of drives. Defenses will be very vanilla as usual. So I’d like to see some shot taking and developing routes.
I don’t care if he goes 10-12 if it’s for 60 yards. Other words, I want to see some nice mid range passing as opposed to taking what is there in a preseason game. -
Gase says he will pass more in preseason to make decisions about backups..
Osweiller had a good scrimmage today, he’s been vocal all week, directing his guys, seeing the field well and moving when he needs to, albeit against backups, after three practices I said he should be 2nd team, after this game I’m pretty sure he is.Last edited: Aug 4, 2018 -
ripper1961 and djphinfan like this.
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You just can't get that same feel in practice. It's also good for the coaches to get a better evaluation of the backups and overall depth of the team.
If they did away with preseason the first 3-4 games of the season would be terrible to watch, IMO, tons of penalties and badly played football, not to mention possible conditioning problems for the players, leading to injuries (which is you you don't like the preseason in the first place).
Personally, I have no problem with the preason.Hiruma78, Carmen Cygni and resnor like this. -
I think more than anything, preseason is the time for "bubble players" to prove their worth and make the team- folks like Carroo, Grant and Gesieki should get tons of reps. I would almost prefer it like the NBA does with the summer leagues where young players make the whole roster and they get real game experience in a mini-season with a championship- make it for any player on a rookie contract and let em scrap it out.
I think it would also be huge for young QB's to get that practice at the NFL level- I would personally watch it to see what our young talent brings to the team. I'd also like it because players with perceived conditioning issues (AKA Parker) get an extra few months of work in to get to that next level.
Here's how they could do it-
Week 1- practice
Week 2- Buffalo (division rival #1)
Week 3- New York (division rival #2)
Week 4- New England (division rival #3)
Week 5- tie-breaker divisional games (basically wild card games for contenders, pride for everyone else)
Weeks 6-7- eight team playoff (each div. winner is in)
Week 8- Championship
Then roll right into the regular training camp after the mini-season ends.Last edited: Aug 4, 2018djphinfan likes this. -
You all do realize that the NFL preseason used to be 6 games, don’t you? Or are you all too young to even know this?
Back in those days the starters played 3 quarters of the last 2 games to tune up for the regular season and it was do or die for the remainder of the squads to show what they had to make the team.
Why some of you want to baby these players is beyond me. If you want to make the team, especially with preseason now only being 4 games, you better outplay the man to your left and rightresnor and Tin Indian like this. -
Come on, pops. Times have changed. Look at the players lost to injury by the end of the season last year. I wanna baby the aforementioned players, so they are on the active roster.
I know that back in yesteryear the cutting edge technology was rubbing some dirt on a wound, but that just aint gonna cut it now. -
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Preseason activities, and all 4 games, are an unfortunate necessity. In fact, the entire sport would benefit from more full-paded practices to shore up the two most important fundamentals - blocking & tackling.
Claymore95, Brasfin and Surfs Up 99 like this. -
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/08/the-nfls-preseason-farce/261774/
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If you really want to know what Walsh thinks of the preseason and it's importance, read his book Finding the Winning Edge.firedan likes this. -
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Finding the Winning Edge, page 360:
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Maybe a different type of quote helps here:
https://www.newsday.com/sports/foot...l-preseason-reduced-to-three-games-1.13950784
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How many injuries occur in the preseason?
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KeyFin likes this.
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I know that doesn't answer your question....but it at least gives some context if the site can be believed. It felt fairly legit though since they did a lot of math and calculations. -
If a guy tears his ACL in a preseason game, there's no guarantee he wouldn't have done that in a regular season game. Knowing how many injuries occur in the regular season doesn't answer my question though. LOL. If people are going to argue that preseason injuries are a significant problem should probably be able to back up the claim with actual numbers.
Brasfin and Carmen Cygni like this. -
tirty8 likes this.
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Eliminating even a single preseason game is short-sighted. Not only does it ignore the lack of conditioning and training needed to prevent injuries, it removes progression towards those goals in the process by removing week(s) of preparation to get ready for the long haul of the regular season. Injuries are a part of the game and can happen anywhere (home, weight room, practice field, etc). Week one hits like rocket blast compared to all other action, and taking it easy beforehand is a poor solution.
Brasfin likes this. -
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In any case, here's an article from last year after preseason week 3 that helps quantify the risk:
http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/245976/the-biggest-injuries-from-nfl-preseason-week-3
After preseason week 3 you had at least the following starters that missed at least one game due to injury:
Dolphins LB Raekwon McMillan (torn ACL)
Redskins LB Trent Murphy (torn ACL)
Broncos DL Billy Winn (torn ACL)
Vikings RB Bishop Sankey (torn ACL)
Lions DL Kerry Hyder (Achilles)
Seahawks LT George Fant (torn ACL)
Giants WR Odell Beckham Jr. (ankle)
Redskins S Su'a Cravens (knee)
Lions WR T.J. Jones (hamstring)
Bengals S Shawn Williams (elbow)
Bills WR Rod Streater (toe)
Bears WR Cameron Meredith (knee)
Cowboys LB Anthony Hitchens (knee)
Chiefs RB Spencer Ware (torn PCL)
Patriots WR Julian Edelman (torn ACL)
That's just the ones they list.. doesn't mean there aren't more starters injured. So over 3 games that comes out to a minimum of 5 starters per week you'd expect would get an injury serious enough they miss at least a game (and about half of them missed the season). That's about a 1/3 probability any team will suffer a serious injury to a key player in a single preseason game (and about a 1/6 probability one will miss the season).
HUGE risk IMO. -
But injuries have VERY LITTLE to do with preseason. Preparation has very little to do with preseason. This is ALL ABOUT MONEY. Owners charge full price in revenue that isn't shared, and are only on the hook for a handful of players. The "53" don't get paid until week 1.
18 games with 2 preseason games would be too easy. BUT...players are going to demand their regular salary for two more games. That's millions and millions of dollars that right now the owners are pocketing. And IMO, the owners believe they can get just as much with television revenue in 16 games as 18, and not have to share the money with the players.
The injuries, theoretically, would occur in any game...good teams play well early in the season...IMO, its only about money, nothing else.resnor likes this. -
I don't buy the argument that 5 starters a week are being hurt in the preseason. Starters get like, a series per game through the first two weeks. Shakes you might see starters playing a quarter in the third or fourth game.
Preseason is about money and figuring out which guys are getting cut.Redwine4all likes this. -
The one unknown there is whether 2017 was an anomaly. A quick google suggests it's not. Here are key injuries from just the 3rd preseason game in 2016:
http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/...season-week-3-injury-list-romo-watson-peerman
Cowboys QB Tony Romo (compression fracture of L1 vertebra)
Ravens TE Benjamin Watson (torn right Achilles tendon)
Chargers RB Brandon Oliver (tight Achilles.. season ending)
Bengals RB Cedric Peerman (fractured left forearm)
Falcons S Keanu Neal (right knee.. required surgery)
Colts OG Jack Mewhort (left knee.. 2-4 weeks)
Ravens RB Kenneth Dixon (torn left MCL)
That's 7 key injuries (among those ESPN decided to list), again with at least half of them season ending JUST in the 3rd preseason game in 2016, where you'd suspect more key starters are likely to get injured than in other games.
That's consistent with the estimated 5 per week from 2017. Obviously, we can keep track of it this year to see if this holds. -
That doesn't even make any sense.Redwine4all likes this. -
Let's just all agree that the pre-season is a necessary evil that may benefit to being cut back by a game.
I just want to see the young guy's get reps and the vets stay fresh. More than anything, just glad football is back in some capacity.Redwine4all likes this. -
You asked for data in post #28 on how many starters are injured in preseason. I gave you an estimate based on actual injuries in 2017 preseason games in post #29. Then in post #31 you said you don't believe the data. I pointed out you need to change your assumptions if it doesn't fit the data (that you asked for) and then I showed that the estimate from 2017 is consistent with the 3rd preseason game of 2016.
So that's precisely the type of data you asked for. And it's partial only in the sense that the estimated injury risk from that partial data is LESS than the actual. Also, never once did any argument I made depend on how preseason injuries compare to regular season injuries. All I ever said there was that the injury risk, whether preseason or regular season, is positive.
So your post is the one that makes absolutely NO sense. -
Here's an easier way to get the same number. If a average of 55% of the players in the league get injured in 16 games, divide that by 4 to see how many get hurt in pre-season. The answer should be relatively close- around 13.75% of the roster is injured in any given 4-week span (or 3.44% of any roster is injured per week).
So that's the baseline- you'll have 3.44% get hurt on any given week and the average recovery time is 3 1/2 weeks. That includes everything from sprains to broken bones.
Here's something else to consider though; our pre-season roster is 100 players, which means around 14 injuries per team for the month of pre-season. 13.75 times 32 teams is 440 people (or 110 injuries per week league wide- or the 3.43 injuries per week, per team). That should be close to a real number answer for ALL pre-season injuries.
Now, this doesn't consider players getting hurt in games vs. players hurt in practice. But that's the closest we can get without watching film.Last edited: Aug 7, 2018 -
And if you want to claim money as the factor in 4 preseason games, might want to consider the elaborate tv deals as a better foundation for that argument as they garner higher contracts for regular season games. Teams do not make nearly as much off of ticket sales and stadium attendance.Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2018resnor likes this. -
Plain and simple solution to injuries: Revise the CBA to allow for increased conditioning times for camp and preaseason practices. The amount of full-padded practice should also be bumped up.
resnor likes this. -
I only punted in one game with three total kicks, and I got clipped in the knee on the second kick while fully extended. It did hurt but I played o-line on the very next series....I never missed a snap. They did a scope and didn't find enough damage for surgery, although the ache lingered for months.
30 years later though, I wake up in tears some mornings from arthritis in that knee- I'm actually thinking about seeing a doctor to finally get it "cleaned up". My point is that it's a football injury that took a good 25+ years to really set in. In sports, we only count the injuries that put players on the bench. There are countless other injuries that we "suck it up and play through" though....and many of them we probably shouldn't.
Here's another thing to think about. I played thousands of snaps in high school and college at offensive line without a single injury. That's the most violent position on the field- and I walked away with bumps and bruises only. Yet, I played 3 snaps at punter (the safest position) and never fully recovered.Last edited: Aug 7, 2018resnor likes this. -
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/truth-behind-rising-injury-rates
Carmen Cygni likes this.
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