I noticed he took a bunch of sacks against the Broncos instead of throwing it away. Too bad he can't scramble like Snoop D O double G in tha house.

 

In all fairness, Burrow has missed relatively the same amount of games as Tua has.

 

Why would criticism of Joe Burrow get anyone on a Dolphins forum emotional?

 

The best indication of how good Joe Burrow is, is that Zac Taylor hasn't been fired.

 

How in the hell is this idiotic thread Dolphins related?

 

Just saying…

The Bengals’ losses this season have been to the Patriots, Ravens, Steelers, Commanders, Chargers, Chiefs and Eagles.

Based on all of the “cons” levied against the Dolphins, especially Tua…couldn’t one apply the exact same argument against the Bengals this season…that they can’t win against a playoff team?

 

Same with Herbert. Other than Denver they lost to every team with a winning record they played this season: Pittsburgh, KC (twice), Baltimore, Tampa.

So Tua beat one winning team (Rams) but lost to all others, Burrow beat one winning team (Denver) but lost to all others, and Herbert beat one winning team (Denver, although he did it twice), but lost to all others.

Burrow is obviously in a different category because of what he's proven in the playoffs. But otherwise the criticism of can't beat the good teams shouldn't be specific to Tua.

Also, if by some miracle Denver doesn't make the playoffs, then the exception for Herbert goes away if we talk about playoff teams instead of winning teams, and it also might for Burrow depending on Cinci's last game at Pittsburgh.

 

And this is where I agree with Dan that wins and losses are team stats, not quarterback stats.

Burrow has played decently this season and yet, they started 4-8 on the season before making their end of season run.

All of the praise and criticism directed at one player ie; the quarterback for a team’s record to me is just nonsense.

I mean take this for instance…of the last 23 Super Bowl victors, 16 of them had a top 10 defense. And yet, whose jockstrap does everyone ride?

I just wish everything would be discussed in the full context and not cherry picked.

 

Wins and losses only become player stats with massive sample size, like over a 10+ year career for QBs, and probably never for players with much less influence on the game. It's not an accident that the best QBs tend to have the highest winning percentage among QBs that played 10+ years. But over a few seasons? W/L should be discounted for any QB.

 

Hmm.
Burrow 12 tds 1 int against steelers and Ravens!
You guys are delusional!If Tua had those numbers it would be everybody else's fault!
Be honest!
Tua against playoff teams 7 tds 7 picks huge difference!
I heard on here Tua got sacked 5 times against.packers.What is he supposed to do?
They scored 12 pts.
Burrow sacked 7 times against Broncos.
30 pts!
So.please with your homerism!
You guys all know Burrow is way better than Tua.
39 more tds,3000 yds more passing yds, better qb rating,5 playoff wins to zero.
Beat Allen and Mahomes on the road in playoffs.
Tua looked like a frozen tilapia in KC .
We are.not winning **** with this guy.

 

Tua had 2 TDs 0 INTs and a 124.9 rating against Buffalo and yet we still hear "Tua" can't beat good teams. Was that Tua's fault?
Tua had 2 TDs 0 INTs and a 114.2 rating against GB and yet we still hear "Tua" can't beat good teams. Was that Tua's fault?

The question isn't whether Burrow is better than Tua. Of course he is. The question is why so many anti-Tua guys have to resort to imposing a double standard for Tua. First, it was the massive amount of goalpost moving, now it's changing the goalposts only for Tua!

Tua has now played at statistically elite levels for 3 years in a row. He is a franchise QB. Yes he hasn't proven anything in the playoffs, but many great QBs never did till they had some years under their belt. Peyton Manning was 0-3 and terrible in the playoffs until his 5th year. You can't judge Tua's ability in the playoffs (and whether we can win **** with him) until we get a much larger sample size.

 

2 tds?Big deal.Burrow had 5 and lost

 

And 4 and lost and 3 lost.
Definitely sucks like 28th.Dolphis are top 10

 

Who cares. You don't blame the QB when he plays that well nor say "he" can't beat good teams. Clearly in those games it was the rest of the team that was the primary reason for the loss.

 

I think you’re missing the point.

 

Frozen tilapia

Lmfaooooo

This
Describes Tua.
To a T.
It's ok
To laugh.


.

 

Dude he says right in the post that Burrow is better than Tua.

Thank you. That's all we've been saying.

 

If a 10 is hotter than a 9 the 9 is still hot though right?

 

That is nothing close to "all you've been saying" lol. Tua is being attacked for things that aren't his fault, like losing to teams when he played really well. And of course if we go back several years "all you've been saying" includes arguing that Tua is only putting up great stats because of his surrounding cast, and that he's not much more than an average QB otherwise. That's pretty much inconsistent with what you see historically when a QB puts up elite stats 3 years this early in his career — relatively few exceptions there, though Watson is really making a case for being one.

We all know the goalpost moving from past years. What's happening now is changing the goalposts only for Tua, i.e., setting a double standard only for him. As pointed out, Herbert has as much trouble beating good teams, and he also choked in the playoffs. Why not acknowledge the criticism applies equally to him? Or equally to Burrow this year? Yes, Burrow is different because of his past playoff success, and I've said from the outset he was the best of the bunch. The issue isn't that he's better, it's that there's a double standard being applied to Tua.

 

U

Dude you know the Tua to Burrow is a joke.
Tua has come up small his entire career when it mattered.
And as for Burrow he has elite stats against the elite teams.7-7 tds is not elite.
I guess it was Marinos fault when he threw 44 tds and they won 8 games in I think it was 1986
Defence can't stop anybody.

 

Yes dude, it is. All of these arguments boil down to you guys claiming Tua is worth it because he's elite, and us pointing out that not only is he not better than the other options that were initially available, even if he were better today, he isn't dependable physically.

And trying to then compare injury history to Burrow, as another poster has done, is already erroneous as you've stated that Burrow IS the better player. So even if their injury histories are similar, Burrow is a better QB so he would always be the better choice.

I've stated all along that barring injury Tua would have a decent-good NFL career. I personally don't think the risks associated with Tua have ever been outweighed by his positives to the extent that it justified where we took him and what we gave up, to extending him at the third highest rate. Had nothing to do with whether or not we could get some wins with him.

 

What specifically are you arguing against? Point to something I said that you disagree with. This latest post seems like you're ignoring what I posted.

 

Burrow wasn't available. Herbert was, and there's no evidence Herbert is in any way better. If anything Tua is slightly better than Herbert because he has shown he can play at an elite level for many years in a row while Herbert has never shown that.

As far as risks with Tua, today specifically, if you get rid of Tua there is no better option and the biggest hole on our roster will be QB. That's another 10-20 year search for a QB who could play as well as Tua. The way to mitigate the one risk with Tua (his health, i.e., availability) is to find a good backup QB and build up the OL. There is no good solution without Tua, realistically, unless you tear everything down and that's setting us back a ton.

 

I do have a house full of people and ur right.
So used to arguing with Don Strock.
My apologies.
But my point was Don Strock made this post to suggest Tua was better than Burrow and it's a joke that he would suggest it.
And hey Tua prove it to me you can win when it matters!So far he hasn't.

 

I would definitely would take Herbert over Tua and we will see who has the better career
I personally think Tua will be out of league In a couple of years and the league will not even remember him.
But will see.

 

Yes we'll see.

Tua has done a hell of a lot better than his detractors have predicted thus far, while Herbert has done exactly as I predicted from mid-2nd year: his stats back then suggested he wasn't improving like you'd normally want in an elite QB and here we are 5 years later and he's the same package as he was when drafted.

As we all know, Tua's primary issue is availability. That's a clear risk, but if he can stay healthy I think he'll have the better career. But as you said, we'll see.

 

Fair reply.
You have ur opinion and I have mine.

 

Tearing it all down is certainly an option. It's always an option and the turnaround with teams in this league is fairly short. Yeah...We can tank for Arch Manning, but it still sets us back 3-4 years. I guess less if he's the real deal right away.

I personally don't think the team needs to do that. I am irritated with the Tua injuries that seem to happen at the very worst of times. Yeah we can beat a crappy Browns team with Huntley and quite possibly the Jets on Sunday, but we need Tua healthy when it matters. That has been my only complaint about him and it's a rational, understandable one. Some of the people that don't like him complain about each and every throw he makes or doesn't complete. It gets old reading through it over and over. He's not on Burrows level, but that's like saying Drew Brees sucks because he's not Tom Brady. Ten years from now, this draft class of Burrow, Tua, Jordan Love,Herbert, and Hurts is going to be in the conversation with the 83 QB draft class.
Tua just needs to stay healthy and he'll be fine. So far, he hasn't been able to do that. Skylar Thompson should not have to win us a game to get us into the playoffs. The following year we had a complete meltdown in late December. This year Tua is hurt again. We've lucked out in December by playing some teams that have already checked out on the season. Now we get Aaron Rodgers who probably has a few good ones left in him.

 

I think the bigger issue here is the fact that we keep suffering from injuries to our offensive line. None of the playoff teams are having to poach practice squad players off of other rosters to fill spots in. That's been an ongoing issue with this team and it has a direct effect on our quarterback and the run game. Hell the entire offense for that matter. It's the number one reason why Grier needs to go.

 

Our Gm said our line is fine and we not worried about it.
The guard play has been awful.That statement alone should get him fired.

 

Who has said that Tua is better than Burrow? Can you show even one post on on any thread on this site? You do remember that Burrow was the number one overall pick, right? The only team that could chose between the two was the Bengals. The Dolphins were widely reported as trying to trade up for Burrow. Talk about straw man arguments. It's like you lost history. The debate was/is HERBERT or Tua. (or, trade back and Love which was my choice) The point about injury history is that players can still be considered elite with injuries. Now if you want to argue that elite means top 1% of QBs in the NFL vs top 5-10%, then make that argument. Tua, when healthy, certainty fails into the top 5-10% with there being 64 first and second stringers at anytime, and many more 3rd or lower due to injuries.

Also, to what you have "stated all along", you really don't think I could find posts where you called Tua average at best? Really? I'm mean, I'm not going to look it up, but really?

The Tua thing is so weird. If someone wanted Herbert, yeah that happens. I really think that Lamar Jackson should be a Dolphin. I am still a little disappointed by that. It was setup up that they could have traded back and still got him, and he really wanted to be here. Instead, Minkah, who was later swapped out for a different Jackson. Do you see me whining constantly about the Dolphins having the wrong Jackson? No, because I am not a child and it does no good. Hold Tua over Herbert over Grier, just stop the Tua nonsense. Meaning the constant goalpost shifting, denial of his strengths, and exaggerations of his weaknesses. How long would it be before most of you blocked me I came on here kvetching about Austin vs Lammar as often as the Tua haters do? We cannot even have a real discussion about Tua. I have real concerns about his ability to stay healthy, but I am not going to discus them here. Same with the changes needed to build a team that maximizes his talent.

 

And down goes Burrow

 

He came back in and finished the game.

 

Just watched the highlights and figured out Cinci has Gisecki....wow! Makes zero sense for him to be with his 3rd team already.

 

I've brought this up before but what happened to the rule from 2022 that any sign a player might have a concussion they're out for the remainder of the game no ifs and or buts? It happened to us the game Teddy Bridgewater did nothing more than shake his head the first snap of the game and in came Skylar. Makes you wonder what's really going on in those blue tents. Maybe Burrow got a little smelling salt? We know they at least offered it to Josh Allen earlier this season.

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/13/1128524103/nfl-concussion-latest

 

It sure does seem like that rule applies only to quarterbacks with alliterative names with the letter T, doesn't it?

 

Imagine Tua was allowed back in the game after an obvious concussion? We'd lose two first rounders.

 

Well, Tua was following that hit against Buffalo in 2022. Tua played well and the Dolphins won. 4 days later was the concussion in Cincinnati and everyone LOST THEIR FLIPPING MINDS in hindsight…that Tua should NOT have been allowed to continue against Buffalo and ever since, TUA TAGOVAILOA has been under the microscope for the least little bit, but any other quarterback who gets his bell rung?

Eh, he’s ok.