NFL to possibly Flex Thursday night games
33 replies
FinatikmoderatorOPThe dramatic acceleration of the league office’s willingness to push owners to permit flexing of late-season Thursday night games makes it hard not to conclude that the NFL’s North Star is the Big Mamoo.
That’s hardly a revelation. We’ve known for decades that the NFL is a for-profit endeavor. That it’s all about making as much money as possible. That football is business but they say “football is family” because it’s good for business to say “football is family.”
This one feels like a bridge too far. The league’s desperation to boost the Amazon streaming experiment by replacing potentially bad late-season Thursday night games with better games from the following Sunday shows no regard for players who will have not one but two short-week games in a given season, no regard for team employees who must alter flight and travel arrangements on the fly, and — perhaps most importantly — no regard for fans who may have long-settled travel plans for either the Thursday night game that gets moved to Sunday, or the Sunday game that gets moved to Thursday night.
The Thursday night flexing, if adopted, would potentially apply in Weeks 14 through 17. In 2023, it will cover eight different dates in the period of December 8 through December 31.
What if a group of fans decides as a holiday excursion to fly to Las Vegas for a late-season Raiders game, set for a Sunday afternoon? What if, as the season goes along, it becomes clear that this will be a pretty good game? What if the NFL and/or Amazon decide the Thursday night game for that week is not good? What if the Raiders game is then picked to move to Thursday, two weeks before kickoff?
Yes, tickets can be resold. Yes, airline tickets can be refunded (or at least swapped for credit that the fans may not use before the credit expires). And, yes, hotel reservations can be canceled. But the experience is gone, and it’s not coming back.
The NFL, if it adopts Thursday night flexing, doesn’t care about this obvious potential inconvenience to fans who attend games. The NFL is prioritizing the entertainment of those who watch on TV (or not TV), in order to generate bigger ratings for the nascent pivot to streaming.
Who knows what the next wave of TV deals will entail? ABC, CBS, Fox, and/or NBC could be replaced by Amazon, YouTube, and/or Netflix. The better Thursday Night Football does on Amazon, the more the NFL will be able to squeeze out of its partners when the next set of deals is negotiated.
That’s what it’s all about. Boosting ratings for this new age of viewing platforms, in order to justify charging higher prices for those companies. And that’s fine. The purpose of this item isn’t to persuade nine owners to vote against Thursday night flexing. They’re most likely going to do it, if they can engineer a path around the NFL Players Association.
Lots of people will tell you what they think about you and what you shouldn't and should do. Not everyone's thoughts are worth consideration. Don't take criticism from anyone who you wouldn't also go to for advice.
OwesOwn614forum_veteranThis sucks for so many reasons. I'd be so pissed off if I made travel arrangements to see a Sunday game and found out it was flexed to Thursday less than a week before it was played. This impacts days taken off from work, hotel/rental car/airport plans and more. Horrible for attending fans, some of whom may only be able to see one game in person per year.
It's even worse than regular Thursday night games for players. Thursday games are horrible for player safety and if I was a player, I'd be even angrier if I got flexed late in the season. To be perfectly honest, I wish they'd switch to Friday night games instead of Thursday. Or just get rid of the Thursday games altogether.
The_Dark_Knightforum_veteranWith "player safety" being the NFL's "top priority" (or so they claim), I just can't see how the league can allow Thursday night football to continue. I would have figured after Tua's catastrophic concussion, the league would have reevaluated TNF and cancelled it all together.
I understand the NFL is a business...I understand it is in the business to make money. I am a capitalist and understand this but you can't beat the drum of player safety with one hand and the money drum with the other.
“The person you will spend the most time with in your life is yourself, so you better make sure you’re someone interesting”
The NFL proves yet again that the fans, followed by the players, are at the bottom of their priority list. The millions that the fans spend pales in comparison with the billions that the streaming services (in this case, Amazon) will pump into the revenue stream.
So what if a few fans have to cancel their once-a-year (or lifetime) plans? As long as the networks are happy, they don’t care.
Vertical Limitforum_veteranThe NFL’s money deal with amazon is too significant for them to get rid of Thursday football unfortunately.. and while the players want it gone, theyre also benefiting from the amazon deal so in the end the majority would take the money.
The_Dark_Knightforum_veteran"Vertical Limit wrote:
The NFL’s money deal with amazon is too significant for them to get rid of Thursday football unfortunately.. and while the players want it gone, theyre also benefiting from the amazon deal so in the end the majority would take the money.
They could always refuse to play on Thursday
“The person you will spend the most time with in your life is yourself, so you better make sure you’re someone interesting”
KeyFinforum_veteran"Vertical Limit wrote:
The NFL’s money deal with amazon is too significant for them to get rid of Thursday football unfortunately.. and while the players want it gone, theyre also benefiting from the amazon deal so in the end the majority would take the money.
I honestly wish Amazon got the Sunday Ticket too- it would be great to see all games on a single platform. Was just looking at YouTube pricing and thinking about cutting Direct TV. Internet is weak in my area though so that's another hurdle.
Winning football games at any level comes down to winning in the trenches.
"KeyFin wrote:
I honestly wish Amazon got the Sunday Ticket too- it would be great to see all games on a single platform. Was just looking at YouTube pricing and thinking about cutting Direct TV. Internet is weak in my area though so that's another hurdle.
What is the pricing for YouTube plus the ticket?
"OwesOwn614 wrote:
This sucks for so many reasons. I'd be so pissed off if I made travel arrangements to see a Sunday game and found out it was flexed to Thursday less than a week before it was played. This impacts days taken off from work, hotel/rental car/airport plans and more. Horrible for attending fans, some of whom may only be able to see one game in person per year.
It's even worse than regular Thursday night games for players. Thursday games are horrible for player safety and if I was a player, I'd be even angrier if I got flexed late in the season. To be perfectly honest, I wish they'd switch to Friday night games instead of Thursday. Or just get rid of the Thursday games altogether.
That's a great point!Fuck these Thurs night games in general!
Fucking ove the players and the out of state fans.
KeyFinforum_veteran"pumpdogs wrote:
What is the pricing for YouTube plus the ticket?
It's not fully clear yet- they're expecting around $300/year to buy it standalone but they're also going to offer a stripped-down budget tier...no word on that price. It also says that the ticket will be included with YouTube+, so that's probably the path they'll drive people. Also, they've decided not to do a team by team subscription.
Winning football games at any level comes down to winning in the trenches.
KeyFinforum_veteran"OwesOwn614 wrote:
This sucks for so many reasons. I'd be so pissed off if I made travel arrangements to see a Sunday game and found out it was flexed to Thursday less than a week before it was played. This impacts days taken off from work, hotel/rental car/airport plans and more. Horrible for attending fans, some of whom may only be able to see one game in person per year.
It's even worse than regular Thursday night games for players. Thursday games are horrible for player safety and if I was a player, I'd be even angrier if I got flexed late in the season. To be perfectly honest, I wish they'd switch to Friday night games instead of Thursday. Or just get rid of the Thursday games altogether.
I didn't think it through- surely they couldn't flex them same-week. That would open a world of headaches since teams would have to prepare for the game every Mon-Wed in case they're traveling early Thursday. Or maybe teams just make it standard practice to travel Thursday mornings regardless...which throws off the week but at least it's predictable.
I agree, terrible rule.
Winning football games at any level comes down to winning in the trenches.
M1NDCRlMEforum_veteran"pumpdogs wrote:
What is the pricing for YouTube plus the ticket?
They haven't announced the price for Sunday Ticket yet. The nugget thrown out was that there will be a discounted price for those of us subscribed to YoutubeTV. Coincidentally they just announced a price increase from $65 to $73 for the base plan. I have the sport package add-on so my bill will be $84 per month. If they do the per team pricing I'll add Sunday Ticket in a heartbeat, but if they keep the shortsighted view of all-or-nothing I wont add it (unless its something ridiculous like $100 for the season).
SICK;944668 wrote:
that and.....the city of jacksonville sucks.
"KeyFin wrote:
It's not fully clear yet- they're expecting around $300/year to buy it standalone but they're also going to offer a stripped down plan. Also, they've decided not to do a team by team subscription.
Stupid decision. I’d probably pay $50-75 for Dolphins games, but there’s no way I’d pay $300 for the whole package.
"M1NDCRlME wrote:
They haven't announced the price for Sunday Ticket yet. The nugget thrown out was that there will be a discounted price for those of us subscribed to YoutubeTV. Coincidentally they just announced a price increase from $65 to $73 for the base plan. I have the sport package add-on so my bill will be $84 per month. If they do the per team pricing I'll add Sunday Ticket in a heartbeat, but if they keep the shortsighted view of all-or-nothing I wont add it (unless its something ridiculous like $100 for the season).
NFL is a greedy business.It will be all or nothing
Springveldtforum_veteran"pumpdogs wrote:
NFL is a greedy business.It will be all or nothing
Yep, they lost me as a customer a few years ago now on NFL Gamepass. I used to have the yearly subscription and would even tolerate the Dolphins games being blacked out when they were on SKY while it was only something like £60 for the year. Then one year they just decided to up the price to something like £130 and I started to sail the seas again. Think it's up to £150 now which is just stupid since they still black out the games that are on SKY.
KeyFinforum_veteran"Fishhead wrote:
Stupid decision. I’d probably pay $50-75 for Dolphins games, but there’s no way I’d pay $300 for the whole package.
I agree. Even $99 for Fins only and it would be an easy decision. $300 to watch games on my computer is much more complicated.
Winning football games at any level comes down to winning in the trenches.
dolphin25forum_veteran"KeyFin wrote:
I agree. Even $99 for Fins only and it would be an easy decision. $300 to watch games on my computer is much more complicated.
I have Roku and can watch via the NFL app on my TV.
Lord help us.
OwesOwn614forum_veteran"KeyFin wrote:
I didn't think it through- surely they couldn't flex them same-week. That would open a world of headaches since teams would have to prepare for the game every Mon-Wed in case they're traveling early Thursday. Or maybe teams just make it standard practice to travel Thursday mornings regardless...which throws off the week but at least it's predictable.
I agree, terrible rule.
IIRC, most teams travel on Wednesday, which gives them one day to practice (Tuesday) and time for a game day walk thru. They all take Mondays off to recover. The proposal is even worse because players who sustain injuries on Sunday will feel compelled to play on Thursday because the flexed TNF games will involve teams that are in the playoff chase.
Without reading the specifics of the proposal, I'd imagine they'll flex the games with a couple of weeks' notice, which still screws someone who made travel and hotel arrangements after the schedule was released six months earlier. It's just an all-around inconsiderate change.
"OwesOwn614 wrote:
This sucks for so many reasons. I'd be so pissed off if I made travel arrangements to see a Sunday game and found out it was flexed to Thursday less than a week before it was played. This impacts days taken off from work, hotel/rental car/airport plans and more. Horrible for attending fans, some of whom may only be able to see one game in person per year.
It's even worse than regular Thursday night games for players. Thursday games are horrible for player safety and if I was a player, I'd be even angrier if I got flexed late in the season. To be perfectly honest, I wish they'd switch to Friday night games instead of Thursday. Or just get rid of the Thursday games altogether.
I think that this is a really good point that really shines light onto a bigger issue: Who is the primary audience and who is the secondary audience?
Everything you said was absolutely true about the most committed of the fan who pay, take time off, travel, etc. and physically watch the game. In relative terms, that is a small amount of fans - literally a stadium worth. Then there are the TV watching audience that is a whole myriad of fans. They could be super fans and out of states to the most casual of audiences that will only tune in of the matchup is worthwhile. I also understand that that very small audience that tends to only tune in if the matchup is good is very, very important for ratings and ultimately a TV contract.
I can also say that in recent years that Thursday matchups have not been good. This expands the problem.
Finally, I don't really want my team to play Thursday night games. I love watching the Phins in prime time, but coming off the shortened week is always lower quality games, and more importantly, a greater chance that the lesser team could prevail.
Deus ex dolphinforum_veteranThe NFL found a way to make Thursday games EVEN worse. It's all about the money though.
A terrible play call, terribly executed.
OwesOwn614forum_veteranThey must have caught wind of the debate.
NFL clubs table TNF flex proposal; Mara, Mahomes among critics
10:02 PM ET
Brooke Pryor
ESPN Staff Writer
PHOENIX -- While NFL teams opted not to vote on a rule that would allow games to be flexed into a Thursday night kickoff, clubs agreed Tuesday to modify the existing rule and allow teams to play a maximum of two short-week games.
That means that while some teams could play two Thursday night games, others would not have any. Back-to-back Thursday night games, such as a Thanksgiving game followed by a Thursday night game the next week, would only count as one short-week game, so some teams could wind up playing three Thursday night games.
"We're interested in making sure that we get exposure for all of our clubs," said Brian Rolapp, NFL executive vice president and chief media and business officer.
"We also believe that these national windows are for clubs that are playing well. We want to put the best teams in the best windows."
While the tabled proposal and subsequent modification on the final day of the league's annual meetings in Phoenix had support from a sizable number of clubs, others met it with tepid reactions, and some were adamantly opposed, including New York Giants owner John Mara.
Mara, who called the idea "abusive," said the vote was close, and he is concerned it will come up again at the spring league meetings and eventually pass.
"At some point, can we please give some consideration to the people who are coming to our games?" Mara said. "People make plans to go to these games weeks and months in advance. And 15 days ahead of time to say, 'Sorry, folks, that game you were planning on taking your kids to Sunday at 1:00, now it's on Thursday night?' What are we thinking about?"
Mara also said he was frustrated that the idea was presented to the owners at the league meetings this week with no advance warning.
"This should have been vetted with the health and safety committee, it should have been vetted with the competition committee, and it was not," Mara said. "They just tried to push it through."
NFL commissioner Roger Goodell pushed back against Mara's assertion that the practice would be "abusive" to fans, saying that the league is trying to balance the best interests of in-stadium fans with those watching on television from home.
"There isn't anybody in any of our organization that doesn't put our fans first," Goodell said. "Providing the best matchups for our fans is what we do. That's part of what our schedule has always focused on. Flex has been part of that. We are very judicious with it and careful with it. We look at all the impacts of that before a decision is made."
Players also appeared to be critical of the decision to increase the number of Thursday night games a team can play. Kansas City Chiefs quarterback Patrick Mahomes, the league's reigning MVP, tweeted the news with a facepalm emoji.
Asked about Mahomes' reaction, Goodell stressed that the league isn't prioritizing a broadcast partner over the health and safety of players.
"I don't think we are putting Amazon over players' interest," Goodell said. "We look at data with respect to injuries and impact on players. ... I think we have data that's very clear, it doesn't show higher injury rate.
He added: "I hear from a lot of players directly, too. They have 10 days afterwards. So there's some benefits on that side."
Pittsburgh Steelers president and CEO Art Rooney II said he was in favor of two Thursday night games, but he also opposed the Thursday flex, which would be announced 15 days before the scheduled kickoff.
"I didn't support the flex part," Rooney II said. "I think that if we are smart about how we schedule the teams... If they're playing two Thursday nights, I mean, for instance, you can give them back-to-back Thursdays, things like that, and have a bye on one end or things like that. I think it can be done in a way that teams will be able to live with it. It provides more inventory to schedule on Thursday night, so it can be a good thing.
"The biggest problem I had with the flex was that the proposal was that you only had 15 days' notice. That's just too short of a turnaround time for a flex from a Sunday to Thursday, as far as I'm concerned."
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35986328/thursday-flex-proposal-tabled-mara-mahomes-critics
KeyFinforum_veteran"OwesOwn614 wrote:
NFL commissioner Roger Goodell pushed back against Mara's assertion that the practice would be "abusive" to fans, saying that the league is trying to balance the best interests of in-stadium fans with those watching on television from home.
"There isn't anybody in any of our organization that doesn't put our fans first," Goodell said. "Providing the best matchups for our fans is what we do. That's part of what our schedule has always focused on. Flex has been part of that. We are very judicious with it and careful with it. We look at all the impacts of that before a decision is made."
LMAO, that's comical! He makes it sound like one team is playing well, so they "flex it" to have them play the defending champs or something since the fans would want to see it. He's soooo full of it. Moving games is never in the best interests of the fans.
Winning football games at any level comes down to winning in the trenches.
"OwesOwn614 wrote:
"There isn't anybody in any of our organization that doesn't put our fans first," Goodell said.
"I don't think we are putting Amazon over players' interest," Goodell said.
What a load of crap.
Kudos to John Mara, btw.
MonstBlitzforum_veteran"Fishhead wrote:
Stupid decision. I’d probably pay $50-75 for Dolphins games, but there’s no way I’d pay $300 for the whole package.
Same. Until they offer reasonable a la carte pricing per team, I'll either keep using greasy links; watch it at the bar, or just not watch it at all.