Ziiiiiing !

 

What is to defend. It is what it is. Marshall and Naanee, and really should be only Marshall.

 

One out of nine is absolutely shot-worthy.

 

I can't really blame Ireland for what happened to Johnson, Garrard and Hicks. Sh!t happens.

I do blame him for the other signings. Especially Westerman, Guyton, and Nannee.

 

even the other 3 where bubble guys from the beginning imo, Naanee is just clever to have this nude pics from someone to still be on this team

 

Can we shoot Ireland for it?

 

I'm sure you can if you want to.

 

This isn't an intellectually honest argument.

None of those players besides Richard Marshall were signed to anything other than small money, one year deals as competition and back-ups. Them potentially losing their roster spot was an inherent part of the deal.

If we signed a bunch of players who were paid and treated as anything other as insurance, this thread would be more than just a circle jerk.

 

Considering the depth at the positions of those players: DE, S, OL, WR, I think at least some, if not most, of them should be contributing players on this year's team. Legedu Naanee's current contributions notwithstanding. Otherwise, why sign them in the first place? The money could've been invested to improve another position or to land a bigger name at those same positions. It wasn't, and there's not much to show for it - 1.5 out of 9? Not good any way you slice that.

 

I think it is called pin the tail on the donkey folks.

 

Some of those issues are not really of Jeff Ireland's making.

Legedu Naanee wasn't signed to be your starter, he was signed to compete for your #4/#5 job with the rookies that were drafted. I don't think that Jeff Ireland was supposed to reasonably suspect that Chad Johnson would commit career suicide and Brian Hartline would have two different long term injuries. Signing Naanee as a starter is unreasonable, signing him to where they signed him is not.

OL isn't really any different. I'm not sure what the perceived problems are at DE and S.

 

If the preseason is any indicator of what we have at DE, Jaamal Westerman was about the only player on the 1st or 2nd team to even sniff an opposing QB other than Cameron Wake - I don't think the depth there is very good. At safety, Jimmy Wilson was pretty bad, putting it lightly, for the most part. Are we even sure that Chris Clemons and Reshad Jones are that good? At least on Hard Knocks, you never got the indication from Kevin Coyle that they played well. Just my two cents, but the depth on this defense could be very problematic.

As for the OL. Ray Feinga seems to be the solution any time there's any injury. Has he ever played a snap in a real game? I can't recall any. The receiving corps is what it is, and it hasn't looked to good other than Davone Bess.

I think all those positions aren't perceived problems. They either are, or could very easily prove to be problems. I'm not sure I buy the perceived solutions to them either. Obviously the season will play that out, but going in, I don't think you can confidently rely on the backups at those positions.

 

Add Steinbach in there also. The entire league knew he had nothing left in the tank. After listening to Irelands reasoning on some players I am starting to go on the side of the fence of people who think he stinks.

He was the only one that lobied for the kid that has not played football since HS. Forget his name. Ireland at one team meeting said with his speed and ability there is no way you find someone as athletic as him on the street right now. They cut him.

Forget who the player was tonight Ireland was talking about but he made it clear he was not ready to give up on him yet. The rest of the coaches said squat, nada. To me that means the only one that wanted him was Ireland. I believe they also cut that kid.

Theres only a handful of FA that have contributed the last few years. Dansby, although I think he is far overpaid, Incognito, Bush. Cannot thinkof many more. Anyone tell me what F/A have actually contributed as starters on this team outside of the ones I put up.

Even this root kid they cut. I thought he stunk it up all pre season but by what I saw tonight Ireland liked the kid and had a hard time releasing him.

LOL, I now see why Jeff Fisher wanting nothing to do with this mess and it appears Ireland is the Ringleader of the mess. Just saying the way I feel now after listening to Ireland tonight and the other hard knocks.

 

This is on paper and in pre-season as well. If it's problematic in the regular season, then there's a point. Right now the things we legitimately know as issues aren't really depth issues, they're **** has hit the fan kind of issues.

 

Yes it's very clear Jeff Ireland should have thought long and hard before signing Eric Steinbach to be their #3 right guard. What he was thinking is a great mystery, for sure.

I mean, how are these things somehow a great mystery to you? Clearly he, and every other GM in the league have reasons why they sign players that they are likely to cut in the future. It's inherent to the actual job.

 

If the receivers suck as much as I expect, I would consider re-signing Chad Johnson after week 2 or whatever when contracts are non-gauranteed.

 

Criticism is expected. What surprises me is when a site, PFT or any other one, praises a team or a general manager. Miami's the team they're going to target after what some said was a debacle of an off-season, so its expected. If Miami has a Detroit Lions-like turnaround, they won't say a word. Its media policy.

 

Point taken, but I think the criticism is actually what you are pointing out. Signing small money guys on a roster so void of talent.

 

Conversely, how many quality talents and ideal fits were on the market that were worth the investment?

I'm not standing up for Jeff Ireland, I think he should have made more moves in some areas too but I think you have to look at both sides.

 

I think if Jeff wanted Hard Knocks to show a side of him the casual fan didn't know like sensitivity he may have or football background maybe it did that, but for a long time fan like me I lost what confidence I had in him to do this job right. And on tonight's episode I noticed a little (key word little) friction in how he and Philbin think about player development when Gates was discussed. How silly does Ireland's logic sound when discussing Brown? I really wonder what these new coaches think about his abilities. However, he was not the only gm enamored with Brown for the same reasons (speed). This is purely my gut reaction, but I presently don't have a lot of confidence in Ireland and I am trying really hard to be fair about it.

 

My concern is what some players are already venting on this team. They don't see the direction, and I am honestly not sure Jeff does either.

 

You're not going to have everyone on board at first. You think everyone thought it was a great idea when Bill Belichick cut Drew Bledsoe and went with sixth round pick Tom Brady? Or when he cut Lawyer Milloy, who was thee leader in the locker room and a guy everyone looked up too?

It takes time. If they start winning some games, they'll learn to like things, that is if they are still around. Get with it or get out.

 

I think Philbin has a direction here. I am not sure he and Jeff are on the same page yet and I can only hope they do get on it.

 

I think where they clash, and I thought this immediately when they hired Philbin, is their philosophy. One thing about Philbin and that Green Bay tree is that they don't necessarily always care about size, speed, etc. They look for guys who can play and I think that's evident when you simply look at WHO they've brought in at QB over the years. On the other hand, Ireland is all about size, speed, etc. and is bent on prototypes. That's not necessarily a knock on him, as we've seen it work before, but it's different from Philbin.

And if you really think about it, this whole franchise doesn't seem to be meshing right now. You look at Philbin and Ireland and then you look at Philbin and Sherman and then you look at Coyle and Ireland and you're left with a "huh?".

 

Mind explaining how Philbin and Sherman aren't meshing? Just curious. I wasn't getting that vibe.

I most certainly am getting the same vibe as you as it regards personnel philosophies. The best example would be Clyde Gates. Philbin seemed to be giving a "why is this guy even here?" vibe whereas it was clear that Jeff Ireland had extreme respect for Gates based on his speed and measurements. Ireland also seemed to have extreme respect for Les Brown based on the same. And Brian Gaine seems very much in Ireland's mold that way.

I think Chad Johnson is another source of clash, or maybe that's too strong a word, though for different reasons.

 

Philbin and Sherman in regards to schematics and philosophy. I don't think the two attack the field the same way. I realize that Philbin didn't call plays but he did have a hand in the development of the scheme in GB in his four years as OC and I think he did things differently than what Sherman has done.

 

what's wrong with what they said? miami's free agent signings sucked. period. end of story.

 

I was joking, geez.

 

Can someone please tell me why having a young guy like Shelby step up and push Westerman off the roster is as a bad thing? He was obviously nothing more than a 1 year insurance policy if needed.

Tannehill & Devlin making it easier to cut Garrard isn't a bad thing either. Crap, it's almost like people are disappointed that our 1st round pick has earned the starting role. Garrard was nothing more than an insurance policy in case Tannehill wasn't ready.


All those guys except Marshall were stop gap signings to buy us time for either the younger guys to develop or the 2013 FA period where we'll be able to land a few big fish. I'm glad we didn't go crazy in FA this year just to go crazy. IMO it makes more sense to give Philbin a year with the team before committing ourselves to any long term, big dollar contracts.

 

Florio also predicted a 20-0 shutout! Put that ish on the wall of the locker room Joe.

 

really? i amagine you would be praising ireland if any of these fa signings turned out to be diamonds in the rough like bess or cameron wake.
your argument implies that ireland knew these people wouldnt be any good because of the amount of money their small contracts were for. which begs the question why did he sign them to begin with? i am assuming you are an ireland lover that makes excuses for his faults and highly praises him for his successes. on the contrary there are ireland haters that only speak of his failures and are quiet on his successes. where are all the rational people that praise him for his successes and speak out against his mistakes? i have several posts that would label me as an ireland hater and several posts that would label me as an ireland lover. the fact is, i am neither. when he does something good i give him praise, when he does something stupid i speak out against it. why is it so difficult to say that ireland sucks this year when it comes to free agent signings? he can still look like a genious if this years draft picks make a good impact on this years team. one good thing to say about this matter is that atleast ireland realizes they sucked and are no longer on the team as opposed to being prideful and keeping them and hoping they get better. i am certain that he wanted all of them to succeed but probably knew not all of them would. one of my problems with him is that he likes to take a lot of low risks so that he can find diamonds in the rough to play for small amounts of money til their contract runs out and he rewards them for what they are worth. i can't fault him for that. its smart, but if thats all he does we will only experience slow improbable success. i am not saying thats all he does because he has gone after a few big names that are no longer on the team except for reggie bush and a couple of lineman on both sides of the ball. i think for the most part he has a failing grade on free agency and has success with udfa's. i would like to see him go after some bigger name fa's at needs we have at positions that were not addressed in the draft. out of all the ones i wanted early in the off season only maybe 2 were brought in for work outs but no deals were done. seems like he likes to see whats left after everyone has already made their move in free agency. but when it comes to udfa's right after the draft he is much more aggressive. i just want to see that same dilligence for fa's not just udfa's.

 

i am with you on your first 2 paragraphs and happy about those things. i disagree with your last paragraph. sounds similar to the other post that i just replied to in this thread. whats up with the stop gap signings? that is a poor argument. why would someone waste time and money (granted its small amounts of money but its still wasted money) for a stop gap role that you speak of? i believe that you would be praising ireland if the "stop gap" players turned out to be great players. we would all be happy. ireland would be extremely happy. ireland wanted that to happen but it didn't. the "stop gap" players are a win win for ireland in your eyes. they bring little criticism to ireland if they don't work out and they bring praise to ireland if they do work out. but to say they were brought in as stop gap players couldn't be further from the truth in my opinion.
i am glad we didn't go crazy in free agency as you say but i am not happy that we didn't really try to fill a couple of needs that weren't addressed in the draft, through free agency. specially when it comes to the wr position. the only real attempt i saw was chad johnson. too bad that didn't work out. again like i said in another post i am glad that ireland cuts bait on his decisions that didn't work out like he wanted them to. but there's no doubt that he wanted them to.

 

Personally, I'd do it to buy my team a year to settle in under a new HC & 2 new schemes so that I don't run the risk of offering any unnecessary money that might hinder future cap space. I'm guessing coach Philbin [and Ireland] wanted a good close look at his receivers and team before deciding what pieces were missing, as well as how we should prioritize those issues. Yes, we needed a receiver, but I'm guessing that Philbin & Ireland would rather hold out a year and find a solid receiver who best compliments the scheme and surrounding cast than simply sign a high priced 2012 FA receiver just b/c he's good and available.

 

the ideal thing is to look for an answer in the draft at needs that are evident to anyone with at least one eye could see. that was not done and probably for good reason since we used a 1st on a much bigger need. i think we should have at least addressed it with our 3rd pick last april. i can't argue with using our 2nd on a much needed right tackle, even though he played as a left tackle in college. i don't know college football like most people do so i don't know if there was a wr worth taking instead of lamar miller. i love lamar miller but picks like those aren't needed with a team with so many needs. maybe there wasn't a wr worth picking at that point and to think that a wr would have a chance of starting at later picks is just wishful thinking IMO. so i can't really fault ireland for not drafting the answer to our wr need last april. so the only other logical thing to do is go after that need through free agency. chad johnson was to late of a signing but was probably the best hope to try to fix that problem at that point in time, but the problem is we could have went after a much more likely answer earlier in the off season but we didn't. that is very upsetting to me. there's no doubt that a 1st round pick at wr is necesary next year and would be justified.

i do recall philbin making a coment about a #1 wr not being necesarry in his offense. his offense in greenbay seems to back up that comment. i wonder how much philbin might have influenced ireland that its not as big of a need as everyone else thinks. maybe philbin knows best, but his offense in green bay has recievers that can catch, and we don't. regardless of whether or not philbin might be influencing ireland,..ireland should have gone after one or 2 of the best available fa wr's early in the off season.
to make a long story short, i think 1 or 2 proven vets are much more necesarry than you think. i agree that its not good to go crazy on free agents because the cap is very important and developing young players is very important as well. i don't want an old over paid team, i want to build the right way, but since every need can't be met that way, we have to look for some help instead of crossing our fingers and hoping for the best. i still don't understand your stop gap mentality though. its to much of a waste of the coaches time, the owners money, the players timem and the fans sanity! lol. if someone doesn't have a good chance to make the 53, they don't deserve the chance.

 

I don't want you to take this negatively too much, but can you please try and start capitalizing the proper letters in your posts (and maybe separate ideas into shorter paragraphs so it's easier to digest)? I really try and read your posts, and in my mind it just comes back as a wall of text, and I simply move on. I'm not sure if it even affects other people, but I'd really like to not skip your posts if possible.

 

Ireland certainly has failings, and I agree completely with some of them you've mentioned.

I'm in a position arguing Ireland in a positive light much more often than not despite my mixed feelings because for the most part the people whom are anti-Ireland are making arguments and holding positions that are pretty ridiculous and more line with finding a scapegoat than reality.

 

While some members can make an argument that Irelands draft record is not so bad the whole argument that he is a better than average GM falls down when you examine his free agent pickups .Think of Wilford ,Grove,Colombo etc.

Yes I know he has found a couple of acorns like Wake but I would venture to say that his percentage of success is below average .
I would like to see one of statisticians we have on this MB do a comparison report on that.