RB in the third round? I don't think so. I'm also not comfortable with taking Ansah that high.

 

not bad, except claiming Jonathan Martin started at RT for all 16 games

 

That's a fantastic mock.

 

I like the draft but I'd rather wait to draft a lineman and I think Stepfan Taylor is a 4-5th round prospect now. If we can get him in the 5th I would be stoked. I'd like that draft but if we could sub S. Taylor for Stedman Bailey I think he would play an ideal slot receiver to take over as Bess makes his way out. Take a 4th round chance on a LB or RB preferably if we could snag a Kiko Alonso or Jon Bostic I would be very excited for a 4th round value. Then grab a Guard and RB in round 5. Maybe a Hugh Thorton and Spencer Ware combo wouldn't be a bad thing.

But Armstead could develop at RT for the year and we can assess if he is best served there or possibly a better LT option to Jon Martin. Still, think he is a great zone scheme fit. DJ Swearinger has really grown on me, I was stuck on Bacarri Rambo but he gets burned too often for my liking.

Jamar Taylor is a stud and I would be very happy to have him and Grimes on the outside and either Patterson or Marshall patroling the slot. Would give us a real better chance against the passing teams with so many options like the Pats and Falcons who we will see a combine three times this year.

Ziggy Ansah I really think will develop nicely, just his lack of Football IQ worries me. But, his athleticism and size really would be a great complement to Wake. Kacy Rogers would work wonders with him and probably would at least get us 6-7 more sacks this year, and allow Odrick to work back into the DT role he will probably fill next year with either Solai and/or Starks leaving.

Really like this draft but think we should also address TE as Keller is more of an off the line TE than anything which is great but we need a blocker cuz I have zero faith in Egnew in that capacity.

 

Couldn't disagree more on the entire post.

Daniel Thomas is a legit candidate to be cut. 3.5 YPC for a guy drafted to be "the guy" is not acceptable. He also isn't a receiving threat, and he can't pound it on short or in the goal line. Oh yeah, he also gets hurt quite a bit and has poor vision. Even if you want to say Miller can be the guy (he can be), who does that leave behind him? Jonas Gray? Marcus Thigpen? Ok, what have they done?

After taking DE, CB, and OT, what do you believe would be a better need-pick than RB? FS is the only one that I think comes close (maybe DT with Soliai and Starks as 2014 FA's and no present depth beyond them, but it's close), and that's addressed with Swearinger at 3b.

Taylor is a great player, and has the potential to be everything that Thomas was drafted to be.

Ansah has phenomenal potential. Top 5 based on his skillset. He's still a little raw (I did see him live vs. Utah this year), but in terms of potential? I challenge you to find a better prospect. At 12, I think he's a steal.

 

217 with 29.8 BMI. He should really think about switching to light beer and trading in the starches & processed crap for whole foods.

 

Really like the 2nd round. Ziggy Ansah scares me in the 1st though.

 

"The stopwatch can't measure Taylor's impressive combination of natural running skills, such as his vision, balance, forward lean and reliability as a receiver and pass protector."

For the value that you might be able to get him, would be an excellent addition to our team..

I've been studying some lsu games, trying to find something in the badgers game to turn me off from the obsession, I came away with two things, I wouldn't touch B Mingo at 12, and, the badger is going to be a star in this league if he can stay clean, and if you are sleeping on this kids game by categorizing him as a "nickel corner", your missing out on the next Polumalu, meaning he needs to play safety.

I saw footwork getting to the Qb, footwork coming off the edge to slam the back behind the Los, footwork that can sift thru traffic to get to the ball, like freakin Majic, this kid has special football talent, and it has nothing to do with the ability to flip his hips, he can do whatever he wants to do on a field, and arrive at point B, unlike any d-back I've looked at in recent memory..

I'm willing to say that when it comes to his game, all other things aside, I'll put any rep I have on the line that he's going to be a star in the NFL.

 

I can live with that draft, maybe even grow to like it.

 

Love the Taylor pick. I.watched that kid completely outshine the Oregon backs when the two.teams met head to head.

Ansah is everybody's darling, even though he got thrown around the vast majority of the season, and mostly by mediocre lineman. Reminds me of the over-hype Verne Ghoulston received, cept Ghoulston actually had a decent college career against top-their talent. I honestly wouldn't touch the kid in the 2nd much less the 1st. Hope the Jests chose him just ahead of us. :lol:

 

Tavon Austin/Tyler Eifert..doesn't matter imo, we can play with the leverage that both present to us in terms of value with our team if we want.

Menalik Watson

Dj Hayden

Cory Lemonier

Tyronne Matthieu

Step Taylor

Hmmm.

 

Would you say it's more or less than the hype JPP received?

I'm not saying Ansah will have a career trajectory similar to either player, but I don't agree with your rhetoric, nor do I think it's particularly accurate.

 

Ansah and JPP? There is no comparison. None.

First off, once again, BYU played a very soft schedule. He didnt have to go up against anybody like JPP faced.

When you compare the numbers, not only for their Senior Year, but throughout their college careers (I am aware that JPP played JUCO, regardless) JPP numbers are purely shocking, while Ansah..is well, in his Soph and Junior years combined, he had...10 tackles, and only 3 of them Solo.

I have to admit, I despise BYU. They are my Alma-Maters biggest rival, or were before they went Independent. That is also what has me watching them whenever I can. I watched this kid, he simply did not separate himself from the rest of the field, on a very very mediocre Cougars defense that didn't play much top talent.

 

Here's some evidence that the writer of this article has no idea what he's talking about:

"Ansah, while raw, is an absolute animal in the pass-rush department"

Watch the film, this is so far from the truth it's not even funny. Whenever I see something like this written, I know that it's a wannabe draftnik who has no idea what he's talking about and is talking out of his a**. Ansah is one of the worst pass rushing DEs I saw all year- no doubt he can use his speed to make plays chasing down ball carriers at the LOS, but his actual pass rush skills are almost embarrassing. He has become a media darling with his international story and his draft stock was saved by his performance at the Senior Bowl, including a late garbage sack. The amateurs now love this guy, I'm curious as to where the pros will actually draft him. Ansah is now imo the single most overrated and misunderstood prospect in the draft, and it's not even close.

 

No? :lol:



Also, BYU's schedule in 2012 was more difficult than USF's in 2009.

BYU played Utah (in Utah), Boise St, Utah St (ranked this year), Oregon State, Notre Dame, Georgia Tech, and crushed SD State in the Poinsettia Bowl.... I don't know where you get off saying that the ACC is tougher, and that he wasn't exposed to talented offenses. Does Notre Dame just not live up to the standard of football that you believe is embodied in Wofford? :lol:

Also, you seem to be unfamiliar with Ansah's story, and why those stats are what they are. He was born in Ghana, and upon moving to the US, tried out for the BYU basketball team. When he couldn't make it, he starred on their track team before walking onto the football team in 2010 (having never played before).

So he never played football before and had to go against teams like TCU, Texas, Utah, Florida State, Tulsa, etc in his first year... He wasn't a sack artist... BUST!

Statistically, he lies closer to Vernon Gholston than Jason Pierre-Paul; if that was the intention of your statement, then you have no challenge from me, because that's accurate. On the other hand, statistics are not a direct indicator of skill. If they were, this board would be upset to know that Ryan Tannehill, last year, was on par with Chad Henne; both of whom are looking up of the pinnacle of greatness, that is Carson Palmer. I'm delving into semantics now, though, so I digress...

There are children in Pop Warner with more football experience than Ansah. You'd be foolish to hold that against him. Speed, strength, and size cannot be taught, but technique can be improved. We have an excellent coaching staff, plus Cameron Wake. I wouldn't say that developing Ansah would be beyond their capabilities.

You and Jim are acting as if he was a boy amongst men, getting stampeded like a Raggedy Anne doll. While the opposite statement would also be untrue, he objectively performed at the Division 1 level, with nearly no experience. He didn't perform at a Heisman level, sure, but he did enough to show people what he's capable of. No one said that Ansah has the credentials, but he has more potential than anyone. I can't see how you argue that.

I'm willing to concede that he could end up like Gholston, but I also believe he could be one of the top pass-rushers of the decade, with the proper coaching.

PS -- If you despise BYU as much as you say, I believe that I may attend your Alma Mater.

 

First off, comparing players solely by virtue of numbers on a page is never a good idea.

Second, the numbers on the page don't even look very similar.

Third, the film does not support the viewpoint that Zeke Ansah plays like Jason Pierre-Paul played at South Florida.

Fourth, actually Vernon Gholston is a pretty decent comparison in some ways...

 

Also, let's not pretend that Ezekiel Ansah has only been playing football for a few months or something like that. He's not Lawrence Okoye walking into a Regional Combine from an Olympic discus career and saying hey, maybe I'll try this footie ball thing you guys like over here.

He's been playing football for three years. Three years is enough time to become a LAWYER for christ's sake. Football isn't as complicated as law, especially for defensive linemen. If you're a real student of the game and you really care about it, it's plenty of time to learn the in's and out's of the game. Hell, look how far our own Alen1 has come in the last three years alone. Yet you still see Ansah trying to slide-tackle players on the field and when he's asked whether he favors a two-point, three-point or four-point stance he has to ask what that means because he's got no idea what you're talking about. He doesn't bother to train seriously for the Combine and he shows up at the Senior Bowl a poor practice player that suddenly does a 180 during the game itself. There are legitimate reasons to question where his mind is at where it concerns football, how much he really loves it (his first loves were clearly soccer and basketball, and then track and field; had to be convinced to give football a try), and how much he's really willing to sacrifice for it.

On the field the thing that still gets me about him is his inability to go out there and use his hands and feet well in combination, and beat blocks. He doesn't create space for himself with his feet and ends up just running into offensive tackles and trying to do everything with hands and leg drive. If that's his instinct it's going to take him a while to get him out of that and learn to add nuance to his game. He's not like Jason Pierre-Paul because Jason Pierre-Paul already knew how to do that at USF. He stood out like a sore thumb. I saw every single USF game including every single home game live in stadium from box seats. So I know plenty about Jason Pierre-Paul and how he played there. He got pressure on the quarterback, which is more important than just sacks. He knew how to beat blocks.

Incidentally Pierre-Paul's work ethic was questionable coming out, and that issue is starting to rear its ugly head in New York at the moment.

 

Where do you live that you can have absolutely no background in the field and become a successful lawyer with 3 years of training? That sounds like a daytime tv get rich quick scheme :lol:

I also stated that he's been playing for 3 years, so I'm not sure if that comment of yours was directed at me or not, but either way, I'm going to challenge it. You can't develop professional-level technique in 3 years, coming from nothing. You have no instinct, no muscle memory, absolutely nothing to build on...and you're asked to pass rush Notre Dame and Texas lines? I mean, that's a hell of a lot to ask for. Too much. Given the entire situation, I don't understand how you could have realistically expected Ansah to have performed better than he has thus far. He has progressed with every year, with no end in sight. That's good.

Now..............he's a huge gamble. That's another point I've made clear. If you disagree entirely, and think he has no potential, then I'll keep debating...but if you agree with me that he is a gamble, and that he could be a star, then we're on the same page. We just disagree on where that potential will go. And that's a totally fair viewpoint that we can agree to disagree on.

 

Where do you live at that you can so incorrectly read and interpret what someone says and then throw up such a great example of a straw man argument?

I wasn't talking about the muscle memory or the way he plays the game. I'm talking about not knowing the rules of the game, nor being able to tell anyone what a two-point, three-point or four-point stance is. Antonio Gates didn't play the game very long before he was playing it well on a professional basis. Menelik Watson is a better offensive tackle than Ezekiel Ansah is a defensive end, and he hasn't been playing very long. I believe Corey Fuller is newer to the game than Ansah, and he's already shown quite a bit of polish. Sean Smith had been playing cornerback for less than 3 years when the Dolphins drafted him and started him in his rookie year.

Potential means you haven't done sh-t yet. Lots of players have potential. Why does Cornelius Washington have less potential than Ezekiel Ansah? He's just as good an athlete. He's going to go in the late 2nd or 3rd round. They both performed lights out during the Senior Bowl game itself but unlike Ansah, Washington actually beat higher quality offensive tackles in order to make his plays on the passer. Ansah did a lot of what he did by virtue of motor.

 

Bingo. It's not that I don't appreciate what Ansah brings to the table athletically, it's what the film shows- he gets stonewalled regularly by OTs, gets his a** handed to him, basically gives up even trying to rush the passer and waits at the LOS to either bat the ball down or peel off and pursue laterally. That's what bothers me- he fails at the prime objective, actually beating an OT to get to the QB. It's why I've said that I'd draft Menelik Watson before Ansah- Watson achieves at his prime directive, beating the man in front of him, while Ansah fails repeatedly. I have no idea how a player who fails so consistently at what he is supposed to do in a base sense is rated so highly. For those who disagree, look at the film. He's a pursuit player, not a guy to win battles at the LOS, bottom line. He's the dinner plate with loads of veg, but the meat is missing.

 

The lawyer thing was a joke, not a straw man argument. Hence the laugh. Sorry you didn't get it. It really takes more than 3 years, though. If you're going to use hyperbole, make it accurate so that this doesn't happen next time.

You're taking three different positions and comparing them to Ansah, and still forgetting that during the early Sparano years, Ansah didn't know what football was. Those guys played in high school.

Also, Gates, in retrospect, should have been a top 5 pick. Not sure what you're getting at.

Potential means ****?

 

This thread should be called Rob Rang Weighs Out.

And if I see anyone else claim that Ansah is like Jason Pierre Paul I'm going to start killing folks. He's nothing like him. And don't make me embarrass you by showing you why.

 

Maybe call it Rob Wang Reighs Out.

 

Agreed. I noticed him a lot during Senior Bowl week because I was focused on the Tackles. He has some big plays in the game, but from what I remember they were against the lesser talented Tackles. In one on one match ups in practice he was pretty much nullified by the better guys. I kept waiting to see him explode and kept feeling disappointed. Right now I'd not be happy with him at #12.

 

He is what he is, an athletic pursuit player with great closing speed while tracking laterally on the LOS, as the film shows:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFYELG3ItAk

 

IMO, level of competition is a non sequitor, you can only play who is in front of you.

For example Demarcus Ware did not exactly play against all SEC types in college nor did Wake go against all pros in the CFL

The real difference between JPP and Ansah is football experience, which makes Ansah a risky pick. Which usually says "2nd rd pick" but his measurables are so good someone will reach for him in the first rd imo.

 

Not a reach, but I agree :)

 

Well apparently your concept of what constitutes hyperbole is about as flawed as your concept of what constitutes a joke. There's nothing hyperbolic about saying three years is enough time to become a lawyer. It's just a plain fact.

This is making less and less sense. So now Defensive End is significantly more complicated than Tight End, Corner and Offensive Tackle? Is that really the argument you're putting forward?

Menelik Watson played high school football? Really? That would be back when Menelik Watson was in high school in Britain? Menelik Watson has played football for two years. He walked onto the field at Saddleback Community College in August of 2011 having never played the sport before. By the beginning of the 2012 season he was one of the best offensive tackles in college football, as I said a better offensive tackle than Ansah was a defensive end.

Well at least you've added straight up misquoting to your repertoire. Simply misinterpreting wasn't enough, I guess.

 

I think your underestimating this player...where do you have him rated as a prospect just so I know where you coming from?

 

Kid looks like a natural football player to me, senses where the ball is, doesn't seem to focus on just beating the opponent in front of him, and has that great athleticism to create and get to point b in a hurry..

Maybe why he looked out of place in one on one drills at the senior bowl is because there was no ball, and there was no game action, he seems like the kind of player where his peripherals are connected to his hands and feet, he likes to decipher plays and react...hence the contrast from one on one drills to MVP of the game.

 

Find me an accredited tier 1 or 2 law school that doesn't require a bachelor's degree.

It doens't matter how complicated the positions are. It's apples to oranges, and it's irrelevant. You know that.

I was referring to Corey Fuller (and Antonio Gates and Sean Smith), when I said that they played high school football. I made it a point to say that because you were making assertions ("I believe") about Fuller being newer to the game than Ansah. False.

Menelik Wilson did not play in high school; that is accurate.

I also didn't misquote you. I didn't even paraphrase. Quote function doesn't lie here on ThePHINS.com. Sorry that you're displeased with what you said previously :lol:

To go back to the cross-positional comparison though; you've become entirely discredited in my mind. To say Menelik Wilson is a better offensive tackle than Ziggy Ansah is a defensive end is like saying I know more about law school than you do about making mock drafts.

 

2nd rounder due to his remarkable natural athletic ability and ability to pursue, maybe late 1st for a team in a gambling mood. I'm having a very, very hard time picturing this guy going up against starting NFL OTs and generating a consistent pass rush- he'll get stonewalled, try to bat down some passes, peel off and chase laterally, with some success. He'll make some plays, get some "wows" and also frustrate the hell out of coaches and fans when he can't even sniff QBs in the pocket on passing downs.

What he will do, as Phinsational and others pointed out, is be able to track down QBs breaking out of the pocket on garbage plays, roll outs, etc. And that's good stuff, part of why I'd maybe take him in the 2nd round (not for Miami, though). But as a pure pass rusher he's garbage. Will he get better? Maybe. But a top 10 pick, and I've seen as high as #2 overall? Not a chance, it's people overrating the flavor of the month imo.

 

Your last paragraph is hot garbage. Watch the film.

 

I actually didn't say anything regarding Ansah's skill level in that paragraph. Ansah could be a grocery bagger and that still would've objectively applied...so...

Also, I have watched the tape. And seen him play in person. Multiple times.

 

LOL. THAT's your argument???

Sure it is.

I was making the assertion that all of the above players were relatively new to the sport and/or their position. Sean Smith had never even played on the defensive side of the ball until less than 3 years prior to his being drafted.

Really? You're going to make me point out the obvious?

Soooo...yeah. Direct misquote.

LMFAO. Yeah. I'm sure that's the same thing.

 

Wait wait. Wait. Hold up. ... Wait.

You mean to say, it IS possible to compare the talent and effectiveness of players from different positions against one another?

MIND = BLOWN!!!

 

Carradine won't last into the 2nd round let alone to pick 42.

 

I'd wet myself if we went a different position with the 12, and then got Corndog Carridine at 42..hell, I'd wet myself if we went DE at 12, and still got Tank at 42........as long as the DE we got at 12 wasn't Ezekial Ansah that is :up: