Interesting post at Football Perspective on running backs and yards per carry.
Just thought it was interesting. And it made me wonder about Miller's future with the team if he has another season like this. Given our likely cap constraints I'm not sure we could afford to pay a lot for a RB, even a really good one.
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Lamar Miller is one of the best players on the team from a production-to-salary ratio perspective.
Fin4Ever, PhinFan1968, dolphin25 and 1 other person like this. -
Miller had a really underrated year last year. He was consistent and high quality, I think the question is actually what level of workload he can take and continue producing like that.
unluckyluciano, Fin4Ever, CWBIII and 4 others like this. -
its pretty amazing how this dude got 1100 yards and an over 5 ypc average...makes me question everything, even my own evaluation...either lazor is a genius in the run game or miller is deceptively way better than we think.
I know this, Miller hasn't reached his ceiling and we can do better as far as putting an oline out there.
this is great news...heres why imo, i believe its taken these past two years for lamar to adjust to the pro game, i see it in his balance, as in its been off at times for no reason, miller has very good feet in traffic, can weave and bob in small areas at full speed, once his equilibrium catches up to his feet and he's running on pure instinct i believe you will notice it more..this year he could break out.
whats strange is when watching him last year i don't recall ever saying that guy is a great back..the numbers say differently.Fin4Ever, Killer Bees, Tannephins and 1 other person like this. -
Miller was like the opposite of the defense. Everyone talked about how we had an "elite" defense, when they really weren't, and everyone moaned about Lamar Miller, despite the fact that he was putting up pretty good numbers the entire year. I was continuously *****ing to my buddy about Lamar's Madden rating, since he was putting up such good numbers, and was consistently undervalued in Madden (I know that Madden really has no relation to actual football, but it kind of shows the lack of respect that Lamar got on a national level).
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Fin4Ever, Ronnie Bass, Unlucky 13 and 1 other person like this.
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In that respect Miller was the "anti-Reggie Bush" in 2014. Whereas Bush would mix runs of a longer distance with a bunch of stuffs behind the line, Miller avoids runs for losses while also producing the longer runs Bush did.dolphin25, djphinfan and Disgustipate like this. -
All year people talked about how Tannehill was a changed man. Well, the stats were better but I thought Tannehill was just playing a more efficiently scripted kind of game. I passed on Tannehill being a "different guy" but pointed out all year how Lamar Miller was.
I remember saying all throughout last season that Lamar Miller was displaying a kind of toughness and physicality that I hadn't seen from him before. Maybe it came from hanging out with Frank Gore in the off-season or seeing Knowshon Moreno come in that lit a fire under him, but there's little doubt that Lamar Miller was a different guy last year.
I honestly thought he'd wind up getting banged up and injured mid-way through the season. That never happened and he wound up with nearly 1,100 yards. He could very well end up being a slightly different Lesean McCoy honestly. Both backs are similar in size but yet seem to be able to carry a full workload without getting injured. -
Jarvis Landry also had a great great yr, almost 2k apy as a rook.
That is rare for a full time Wr/Returner, he was a solid pick up that I was not wild about but he has proven me wrong.
Landry quietly was 4th in the league in APYFin4Ever likes this. -
Miller was the best in the league at that, whereas Bush in my opinion, when he played for the Dolphins, was absolutely terrible. He seemingly displayed little or no understanding of what was needed from a run, based on the down and distance and the game situation. He was going to try his best to be "Barry Sanders," regardless of the game situation. It was a very "selfish" way of playing in my opinion. Very non-team-oriented.djphinfan likes this. -
It's Chip Kelly's Zone-Read system, mostly.
"In 2011, LaMichael James ran for a school-record 1,805 yards on just 247 carries and scored 18 rushing touchdowns with a 7.3 yards-per-carry average. In 2012, Kenjon Barner replaced James with a season just as great -- 1,767 rushing yards on 278 carries and 18 rushing touchdowns with a 6.4 yards-per-carry mark.
And then, there was LeSean McCoy, who in 2013 became the first Eagles player to win an NFL rushing title since Steve Van Buren did it in 1949. McCoy rushed for 1,607 yards on 314 carries and nine rushing touchdowns. He also led the league in yards from scrimmage by adding 539 receiving yards on 52 catches."
http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/07/17/chip-kelly-philadelphia-eagles-running-backs-lesean-mccoyFin4Ever, thisperishedmin, rafael and 3 others like this. -
The problem is what DPate said, Miller can handle so much, about 12-15 carries IMO, another good back is needed. -
If he stays in the 12-15 carry range he can run for 1000+ for the next 5-6 years. If it goes the other way and he's stuck carrying the load primarily on his own I fear for his longevity. -
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It's certainly an interesting perspective, to say that Tannehill played to much better stats, and was more efficient, but that somehow equates to him not being a different QB. I think it's safe to say that both players showed marked improvement last year.
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PhinFan1968 and resnor like this.
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Look...I'm not complaining, just saying he is what he has always been. Of course he's matured the same way all young QBs do--but that doesn't mean he's changed his stripes. He's the same guy we drafted--just a more groomed and polished version of his 2012 self. He is what he is. Bill Lazor didn't change any of that. What Bill Lazor did was minimize his weaknesses by turning him into a low YPA QB with a high completion percentage and get him moving around a little bit on designed runs.
Great. Who's complaining? Just stating things as they happened.dolphin25 likes this. -
I think Tannehill has improved as much as any QB drafted in the last 3-5 years.
rafael and PhinFan1968 like this. -
Who said anything about complaining? I said that I think it's an interesting perspective. I mean, you say he's the same as he was in 2012, when he's clearly not. If he was, he'd have a similar stat line. For the 2/3 of the season last year, Tannehill was playing at a top 10 QB level, including 7+ypa. If he's more groomed and polished, it means he's gotten better. That's the point of grooming and polishing. I am expecting more improvement from him next season. I'm not going to get into the whole "carry the team on his back" debate again, but it's simply not true.
Hopefully Miller shows improvement next year, like how Tannehill has improved each year. Would be nice to have both of them playing at a high level. -
Fin4Ever, PhinFan1968 and resnor like this.
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Miller's consistency was really good. I was impressed last year how he rarely broke a big one but still had a great YPC
Fin4Ever likes this. -
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I'd love the opportunity to see a Melvin Gordon or a Todd Gurley in this system... and then, see what you guys had to say about Miller in hindsight. It would be interesting.
I don't think Miller is anything special. But, that's just my opinion.rafael likes this. -
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its also why tannehill needs to get his average rushes a game up tot 5 per game.Larry Little likes this. -
MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member
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I've always hated this type of argument for someone like Murray. goes back to Barry Sanders, people would comment that if you took away his home run carries then he'd be left with the -2 to 2 yard gains. not valid. he was a HOF running back and you can't ignore the big plays.
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The "read" component isn't really there with any meaningful frequency. Miller didn't gain a bunch of yards operating with a numbers advantage. It's something they pulled out from time to time when they thought they could catch a defense with it. -
Seattle has been running Inside Zone read plays for at least two seasons. The Patriots run them. Several other teams have their own version of it. I've seen Buffalo and the Jets run it against us. I haven't seen one person on this site mention that, and I've specifically been watching for it. Now, I don't know if any other team runs it as much as the Eagles and Phins do, but, the Zone Read... especially the Inside Zone read (the staple play of the offense)... is becoming a staple in the NFL.
People do not pay attention. -
But, whatever... keep on talking. You are welcome to be as wrong as you like. -
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb2012
Far right is the success rate ranking.
EDIT: Their success rate is defined as:
Bush wasn't great in 2011, yeah. But his 2012 was just fine.DevilFin13 likes this. -
I agree with the argument that the biggest reason for our improved run stats last year was Lazor's system. I thought the run spacing was excellent last year. Now I thought Miller did a better job of hitting the right hole than he had previously. I think that helped up his consistency. But I don't feel he often got anymore than what was blocked for. I don't recall him ever carrying the team on his shoulders or taking over a game. The only time our run game did that all year was when Moreno did it in week 1.
I disagree with the notion that Tannehill didn't ever carry the team just b/c he wasn't as elusive as we'd like in the pocket or that he just played an efficient game and that's it. I thought there were several games where his passing was all that was carrying us. I don't believe that he can make up for a crappy D, buy himself more than half of the time, but I do think he's good enough to give you a chance most weeks. Most QBs can't make up for a poor D. Even Marino was an 8-8 to 9-7 QB many of those years when our defense was poor. I think that RT should use his run ability more. There were points where his run ability did dictate games. And there were flashes where he showed his elusiveness (just inconsistently). I think part of that is the OL. QB's can generally show their escapability when there are singular OL breakdowns rather than pressures from both inside and outside. Once Albert went down, too often he faced pressure from OL breakdowns at both G and T. Almost all QBs struggle when facing that. If we can get our interior OL to just be average then I think you'd see a more elusive Tannehill. If we can get a dominant run game going like we had in that first game, then I think you'd see Tannehill put up a top 5 in the league statistical season. And if our D got back to playing like it did before Delmas got hurt then we'd be a very good team.Larry Little and PhinFan1968 like this. -
PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member
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