***The Official Miami Dolphins vs Jacksonville Jaguars Game Day Thread***

This is the first game we're not a huge underdog and have a good chance to win. Currently it's a -3 point spread for the Jags, translating to a 40.6% chance of winning the game for the Dolphins, at least as far as Vegas is concerned.

We need that "W". I don't want a long string of losses suggesting we hired the wrong coach.

Hey, we actually have an ***Official*** title this time...we'll definitely win this week!

Minshew has looked really good and is also a mobile quarterback. I think we will lose this one too.

Jaguars got some pretty good WRs.

Hopefully your secondary can maintain those athletes.

Just please beat the Jags. I absolutely hate that franchise with a passion.

"Destroyer wrote:

Minshew has looked really good and is also a mobile quarterback. I think we will lose this one too.

My father lives in Jacksonville; ***LOVES*** the Jaguars and says that city has Minshewmania. They love the mustache lol.

Seriously though, Minshew has been a bit of a Cinderella story. This is a game we do have a decent chance of winning if we can get a running game going and actually contain Minshew in the pocket. He does have a flare for making plays when he scrambles outside of the pocket.

If we lose this one, but show improvement, it won't break my heart. The last thing I want is for Jacksonville to be a part of the Tank for Trevor sweepstakes. If Jacksonville gets him, holy crap! watch out next season. Jacksonville just needs a good solid quarterback and they're going to be scarey!

Jacksonville were supposed to be the worst team in the NFL by far this year and Miami is the underdog.

"TheHighExhaulted wrote:

Jacksonville were supposed to be the worst team in the NFL by far this year and Miami is the underdog.

Look, its a forgone conclusion that if your quarterback's name isn't Brady, Mahomes, Brees, Rodgers, Watson, Wilson or Jackson you're going to get ***ZERO*** pre/early season respect from anyone.

"KeyFin wrote:

Hey, we actually have an ***Official*** title this time...we'll definitely win this week!

Finally a official one!

Teams making it back to playoff's after 0-2 record are so miniscule that I no longer have hope for this season after 2 games. The only thing I now care for in a throw away year is getting TUA on the field and getting him adjusted to the NFL and speed of the game. Lets us this year for him to get better so next year were not starting a rookie and being asked to be patient again..

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

Miami Dolphins (0-2)
Jacksonville Jaguars (1-1)

Thursday, September 24, 2020
8:20 PM
NFL Network

Mostly Clear, game time temperature 74 degrees

The Miami Dolphins travel to their in state rivals Jacksonville to face the Jaguars in a Thursday night game.

The Jaguars lead the series 5-4. The last time the Dolphins defeated the Jaguars was Oct 25th 2014 in Jacksonville.

Thank you for putting the world official in it, I don't want to come across too strong, but I love you.

Lol

"Dorfdad wrote:

Teams making it back to playoff's after 0-2 record are so miniscule that I no longer have hope for this season after 2 games. The only thing I now care for in a throw away year is getting TUA on the field and getting him adjusted to the NFL and speed of the game. Lets us this year for him to get better so next year were not starting a rookie and being asked to be patient again..

I think you can basically throw out trends like thar this year. Teams are just finding themselves with these early games. Week one was basically preseason.

Ftr I'm not saying we are going to make the playoffs. Just to be clear.

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

Thank you for putting the world official in it, I don't want to come across too strong, but I love you.

Lol

Just showed my wife your post. She’s jealous :sidelol:

"cbrad wrote:

This is the first game we're not a huge underdog and have a good chance to win. Currently it's a -3 point spread for the Jags, translating to a 40.6% chance of winning the game for the Dolphins, at least as far as Vegas is concerned.

We need that "W". I don't want a long string of losses suggesting we hired the wrong coach.

I'm seeing another "L" and confirmation that we hired the wrong coach

"cbrad wrote:

This is the first game we're not a huge underdog and have a good chance to win. Currently it's a -3 point spread for the Jags, translating to a 40.6% chance of winning the game for the Dolphins, at least as far as Vegas is concerned.

We need that "W". I don't want a long string of losses suggesting we hired the wrong coach.

I don't think the coach can be evaluated when 1) the team is very young, 2) it's had tremendous personnel turnover over two years, and 3) the preseason was abbreviated. There are key ingredients in team functioning that can't possibly be present in this team right now. The fact that they aren't getting absolutely murdered every week is perhaps a testament to the coaching.

"Alan in England wrote:

I'm seeing another "L" and confirmation that we hired the wrong coach

It’s possible we lose this game for various reasons but why would it confirm to you we hired the wrong coach?

"The Guy wrote:

I don't think the coach can be evaluated when 1) the team is very young, 2) it's had tremendous personnel turnover over two years, and 3) the preseason was abbreviated. There are key ingredients in team functioning that can't possibly be present in this team right now. The fact that they aren't getting absolutely murdered every week is perhaps a testament to the coaching.

As much as I disagree with you, this is something I can absolutely agree with you

Our schedule this year is looking BRUTAL.

We really have to take this one to get us going or it may be a long season. Time for Flores and his staff to put together a winning plan.

Force Minshew into TOs, keep them contained and get pressure on the QB. Offensively, control the line and pound it.

"The Guy wrote:

I don't think the coach can be evaluated when 1) the team is very young, 2) it's had tremendous personnel turnover over two years, and 3) the preseason was abbreviated. There are key ingredients in team functioning that can't possibly be present in this team right now. The fact that they aren't getting absolutely murdered every week is perhaps a testament to the coaching.

Totally disagree. That goes down the same path of people making "excuses" for failure I never condone, assuming they have control over the situation. And the HC has more influence over how the team plays than anyone else, from how to practice, what to prioritize, play calling and adjustments within the game, helping to motivate and develop players, and also which players to add or remove from the team (even if there's a separate GM the HC has a lot of influence there).

And if you think taking bad rosters and turning them around is asking for too much, tell that to Don Shula who took one of the worst teams in the NFL for 4 years in a row under Wilson and immediately turned a 3-4 win team into a team that won 10+ games every year for the first 6 years under him as coach, with 5 consecutive years of playoffs and 2 SB wins.

Or tell that to Bill Walsh who took a team that went 2-14 and in the 3rd year coaching went 13-3 and won the SB.

Or tell that to Bill Parcells who took a 3-12-1 his first year to a winning record from his 2nd year to a SB win his 4th year. People totally underappreciate what a very good HC can do. No there are no excuses: we either make the playoffs in our 3rd year or Flores is more likely than not a coach that will not have a long career with a well above average win%, statistically that is (and remember.. "playoffs" now means "a tad above average" — it's not as difficult as it used to be).

"cbrad wrote:

Totally disagree. That goes down the same path of people making "excuses" for failure I never condone, assuming they have control over the situation. And the HC has more influence over how the team plays than anyone else, from how to practice, what to prioritize, play calling and adjustments within the game, helping to motivate and develop players, and also which players to add or remove from the team (even if there's a separate GM the HC has a lot of influence there).

And if you think taking bad rosters and turning them around is asking for too much, tell that to Don Shula who took one of the worst teams in the NFL for 4 years in a row under Wilson and immediately turned a 3-4 win team into a team that won 10+ games every year for the first 6 years under him as coach, with 5 consecutive years of playoffs and 2 SB wins.

Or tell that to Bill Walsh who took a team that went 2-14 and in the 3rd year coaching went 13-3 and won the SB.

Or tell that to Bill Parcells who took a 3-12-1 his first year to a winning record from his 2nd year to a SB win his 4th year. People totally underappreciate what a very good HC can do. No there are no excuses: we either make the playoffs in our 3rd year or Flores is more likely than not a coach that will not have a long career with a well above average win%, statistically that is (and remember.. "playoffs" now means "a tad above average" — it's not as difficult as it used to be).

None of that I disagree with inherently -- I just feel like leadership and relationships among the players, which I believe are necessary for winning in the league, are very unlikely to be present on a team that's both young and has had a tremendous amount of personnel turnover in the past two years, not to mention with an abbreviated preseason. If everybody in the locker room barely knows each other and few of the players have been in the league for any length of time, how can they have possibly developed 1) a hierarchy among the players in which leaders have emerged and function in that manner, or 2) relationships among the players that facilitate emotional energy to be communicated among them?

Essentially you have a team full of "strangers" taking the field together. Going to be hard for them to respond to challenges on the field in the way a tightly-knit team usually does, under those conditions. I suspect that when teams have had success early on in a coach's tenure after being very bad previously, they have a substantial number of veteran players who function as leaders and create a positive locker room culture. I can't see how any of that can possibly be occurring with this team, and in fact I don't think it can happen to any significant degree until perhaps near the end of the season.

"The Guy wrote:

None of that I disagree with inherently -- I just feel like leadership and relationships among the players, which I believe are necessary for winning in the league, are very unlikely to be present on a team that's both young and has had a tremendous amount of personnel turnover in the past two years, not to mention with an abbreviated preseason. If everybody in the locker room barely knows each other and few of the players have been in the league for any length of time, how can they have possibly developed 1) a hierarchy among the players in which leaders have emerged and function in that manner, or 2) relationships among the players that facilitate emotional energy to be communicated among them?

Essentially you have a team full of "strangers" taking the field together. Going to be hard for them to respond to challenges on the field in the way a tightly-knit team usually does, under those conditions. I suspect that when teams have had success early on in a coach's tenure after being very bad previously, they have a substantial number of veteran players who function as leaders and create a positive locker room culture. I can't see how any of that can possibly be occurring with this team, and in fact I don't think it can happen to any significant degree until perhaps near the end of the season.

Yeah that's what I mean by excuses. There are people who can very quickly get a group of individuals who never met or worked with each other to work well with each other. This includes getting different personalities, people from different cultures, or people used to different approaches to problem solving to work well together.

Some people are simply really good managers. That's one reason some HC's can effect quick turnarounds.

And it's not like what Flores is facing is some "novel" situation. You think this is the first time in NFL history that a bad team was relatively young and had a good degree of roster turnaround? More importantly, it's not like this is game 1 of year 1. Exactly how long is this "excuse" going to continue? Again, some people are just really good managers, others are not.

And "abbreviated preseason" is no excuse given the stats so far:
https://www.thephins.com/threads/who’s-to-blame-for-the-ty-defense.95409/#post-3298539

The two main effects of COVID-19 are: offenses are performing better (or defenses worse), and everyone is playing SAFER (fewer INT's, fewer penalties, etc.). That second fact contradicts this idea that some abbreviated preseason is causing less coordination among players and greater mistakes. Furthermore, most starters don't play many preseason games so it's not like you could theoretically make such an excuse for more than the first 1-2 games. As the stats show though — and as anyone who has watched the games can see — you don't see a greater amount of "rust" than in past years.

No, playoffs in 3rd year or we have a problem at HC.

"cbrad wrote:

Yeah that's what I mean by excuses. There are people who can very quickly get a group of individuals who never met or worked with each other to work well with each other. This includes getting different personalities, people from different cultures, or people used to different approaches to problem solving to work well together.

And I think that's actually happening with this team -- they aren't getting blown out like they otherwise would, precisely because Flores has gotten them to function physically in that way. Where the distinction lies, however, is in how a team needs to function emotionally to rise to the occasion in the NFL and have an edge against other teams, given the physical parity in the league. That's where this team is suffering and is going to suffer for a while in my opinion.

I don't think there is a human being on the planet who can accelerate to the degree needed here the relational development among people (players in this instance) that inherently takes time to occur. I can't "get to know you" in five minutes, regardless of who may be trying to accelerate that process and how talented he may be.

"The Guy wrote:

And I think that's actually happening with this team -- they aren't getting blown out like they otherwise would, precisely because Flores has gotten them to function physically in that way. Where the distinction lies, however, is in how a team needs to function emotionally to rise to the occasion in the NFL and have an edge against other teams, given the physical parity in the league. That's where this team is suffering and is going to suffer for a while in my opinion.

I don't think there is a human being on the planet who can accelerate to the degree needed here the relational development among people (players in this instance) that inherently takes time to occur. I can't "get to know you" in five minutes, regardless of who may be trying to accelerate that process and how talented he may be.

I didn't say Flores is a failure. I've said all along you have to wait until year 3. So it's very possible what's happening with this team given "20/20 hindsight" (which carries added meaning this year lol) is that he's a good coach. BUT!! What's happening right now is also consistent with him being a bad coach.

Year 3 decides. I mean.. if this team is mediocre in year 3 and Ross doesn't fire him, then ROSS is a bad manager.

Thing about Ross is that he shows sufficient patience with HC's combined with the insistence that results ultimately matter as seen through the 3-4 year HC cycles he's taken us through, but one thing he hasn't shown yet is the ability to evaluate HC's. So if Flores is a failure, the real problem is Ross, not Flores.

Oh, and yes, there are many people (though rare) who are excellent at managing others to the point they can get people who would normally not work well with each other to do so. That happens in a lot of fields, not just in football. So you need to adjust your assumptions about what is possible there.

"cbrad wrote:

Oh, and yes, there are many people (though rare) who are excellent at managing others to the point they can get people who would normally not work well with each other to do so. That happens in a lot of fields, not just in football. So you need to adjust your assumptions about what is possible there.

Right, but what I mean there is that we're talking here about something far beyond basic "cooperation" among people in pursuit of a common goal. We're talking about needing a level of cohesion and leadership that sets it apart from (or at least makes it competitive with) other groups of people who are functioning at an exceptional level in that regard.

Think about the early 2000s Baltimore Ravens' defenses for example. They didn't merely cooperate with each other -- they had leadership among them and very deep interpersonal bonds with each other. Not every team has to be that good in this way, but this team here is at the opposite end of that continuum right now in my opinion. They barely know each other. They can cooperate, sure, but they're a long way from being bonded with each other and functioning with esprit de corps.

"The Guy wrote:

Right, but what I mean there is that we're talking here about something far beyond basic "cooperation" among people in pursuit of a common goal. We're talking about needing a level of cohesion and leadership that sets it apart from (or at least makes it competitive with) other groups of people who are functioning at an exceptional level in that regard.

Yeah, like I said: Shula, Parcells, etc.

If a young Shula took over last year I bet our team looks a lot better and has at least one win this year. Maybe you don't think so because you think this is impossible, but rapid turnarounds have happened in the past from basement level teams.