Thoughts on the Dolphins/Ravens Bloodbath

"cbrad wrote:

But why did that happen? In 2008 we had for the only time since Marino retired an actual "franchise" QB with the quotations in there because he lasted only one year. Pennington was actually ranked #2 in passer rating in the league in 2008. Then he got injured and we were back into our typical world of mediocrity. Just goes to show you how important the QB is in the modern game.

Which brings us back to what we did NOT do in 2008: we didn't draft Matt Ryan and instead drafted Jake Long. Granted, Ryan isn't Brees (who we should have also drafted many years earlier) but he's consistently above average (only 2 of his years was he slightly below). Our franchise history would look a lot different had we drafted Brees, signed Brees in FA or drafted Ryan.

So 2020 may be the first time we actually "tank" to get that QB in the draft. We haven't run this playbook yet.

Sure, but what if Tua doesn't declare? There are no other franchise quarterbacks in that draft any better than what we could have picked this season or the year before. If it's all about the QB, what are we going to do with the other 12+ picks we've acquired by gutting the roster?

Your answer will be to restock the trenches...and I agree. Yet we just saw that it took Tunsil 3 seasons to fully develop, and we're seeing it take even longer for Harris and other DB's. Marino in his prime couldn't have won today and you're looking at 3-4 seasons MINIMUM to rebuild the trenches with youth, all the while trying to develop a QB. Even if we pick PERFECT the next two years, we're going to struggle to beat anyone for a very long time.

One more pont- at the end of last season, we were maybe 6-8 players away from a deep playoff run. Now we're closer to 15 players away with no guarantee that we'll have a QB any better than Tannehill. And we've had this discussion many times- I'm not defending RT here. He's not my guy. Yet we may go 0-16 just to grab RT 2.0 and then we'll have to tank another year to try for Lawrence or Tua. Those extra picks don't guarantee anything- you know that better than anyone here.

It's just an insane plan when you're bleeding fans and they're protesting for you to be fired (which hasn't happened in week 1, but you know it's coming). I don't know if we'll have a winning season before Flores contract expires; it just takes too much time to develop these young guys without any veterans in sight.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

He is proof that morons can become billionaires

Just because someone knows how to run a business doesn't mean they know how to build a winning football team. Those are two very different things.

Look at you losers picking another team to root for. Pathetic.

The Dolphins suck and will suck for a while. Just suck it up and take the beating.

"Rick 1966 wrote:

Just because someone knows how to run a business doesn't mean they know how to build a winning football team. Those are two very different things.

He should have been smarter and not hired Tannenbaum to do it for him.

"TheHighExhaulted wrote:

Look at you losers picking another team to root for. Pathetic.

The Dolphins suck and will suck for a while. Just suck it up and take the beating.

I can do both

"KeyFin wrote:

Sure, but what if Tua doesn't declare? There are no other franchise quarterbacks in that draft any better than what we could have picked this season or the year before. If it's all about the QB, what are we going to do with the other 12+ picks we've acquired by gutting the roster?

Your answer will be to restock the trenches...and I agree. Yet we just saw that it took Tunsil 3 seasons to fully develop, and we're seeing it take even longer for Harris and other DB's. Marino in his prime couldn't have won today and you're looking at 3-4 seasons MINIMUM to rebuild the trenches with youth, all the while trying to develop a QB. Even if we pick PERFECT the next two years, we're going to struggle to beat anyone for a very long time.

One more pont- at the end of last season, we were maybe 6-8 players away from a deep playoff run. Now we're closer to 15 players away with no guarantee that we'll have a QB any better than Tannehill. And we've had this discussion many times- I'm not defending RT here. He's not my guy. Yet we may go 0-16 just to grab RT 2.0 and then we'll have to tank another year to try for Lawrence or Tua. Those extra picks don't guarantee anything- you know that better than anyone here.

It's just an insane plan when you're bleeding fans and they're protesting for you to be fired (which hasn't happened in week 1, but you know it's coming). I don't know if we'll have a winning season before Flores contract expires; it just takes too much time to develop these young guys without any veterans in sight.

That is actually one of my biggest issues. Who are the veteran leaders? I dont know if its necessary but it can be harder to develop without a veteran to turn to at your position.

People may say that is what coaches are for and to a degree its true, but there are some things you want to ask a player who has been around a while.

If Parker or Williams have a question who do they turn to among their peers? It would have been Stills most likely but now?

"KeyFin wrote:

Sure, but what if Tua doesn't declare? There are no other franchise quarterbacks in that draft any better than what we could have picked this season or the year before. If it's all about the QB, what are we going to do with the other 12+ picks we've acquired by gutting the roster?

Your answer will be to restock the trenches...and I agree.

No that is not my answer. My answer is to pick the best QB prospect in the 2020 draft because you simply cannot expect to trade up to the #1 spot in the 2021 draft. You'd have to tank again and if THAT is necessary.. then there's something wrong with our FO.

The 2020 QB class is not just made up of Tua. There are not only enough other good prospects, there's also the thing you have to always keep in mind: there is no "can't miss" prospect and many GM's let future franchise QB's fall in the draft. Talent evaluation is an art not a science, and if that's the case then you definitely pick a QB with your #1 pick.

"KeyFin wrote:

Yet we just saw that it took Tunsil 3 seasons to fully develop, and we're seeing it take even longer for Harris and other DB's. Marino in his prime couldn't have won today and you're looking at 3-4 seasons MINIMUM to rebuild the trenches with youth, all the while trying to develop a QB. Even if we pick PERFECT the next two years, we're going to struggle to beat anyone for a very long time.

One more pont- at the end of last season, we were maybe 6-8 players away from a deep playoff run. Now we're closer to 15 players away with no guarantee that we'll have a QB any better than Tannehill. And we've had this discussion many times- I'm not defending RT here. He's not my guy. Yet we may go 0-16 just to grab RT 2.0 and then we'll have to tank another year to try for Lawrence or Tua. Those extra picks don't guarantee anything- you know that better than anyone here.

It's just an insane plan when you're bleeding fans and they're protesting for you to be fired (which hasn't happened in week 1, but you know it's coming). I don't know if we'll have a winning season before Flores contract expires; it just takes too much time to develop these young guys without any veterans in sight.

First of all I disagree with a bunch of statements here.

1) Marino in his prime would have won us this game.
2) If we truly do pick PERFECT the next 2 years you'll easily have a playoff caliber roster.
3) There's no guarantee we'll have a better QB than Tannehill.. but the probability is very high we will if we pick a QB with our #1 pick.
4) If we don't have a winning season in year 2 or 3 with Flores, then fire him. Doesn't matter if you have your franchise QB.
5) Don't forget that franchise QB's last 10-15 years. Fix that one problem and you can take time to build a consistent winner.

Finally, it's not insane to have a 3-4 year plan that sacrifices short term gain for long term gain. I'm fully aboard with this though I don't know if we have the right GM or coach.

"cbrad wrote:

No that is not my answer. My answer is to pick the best QB prospect in the 2020 draft because you simply cannot expect to trade up to the #1 spot in the 2021 draft. You'd have to tank again and if THAT is necessary.. then there's something wrong with our FO.

Okay, but what do you do with the extra 2nd, 3rd, 4th rounders, etc? We have 7 picks in the first three rounds next season- surely you don't take all quarterbacks.

"KeyFin wrote:

Okay, but what do you do with the extra 2nd, 3rd, 4th rounders, etc? We have 7 picks in the first three rounds next season- surely you don't take all quarterbacks.

Oh.. well there's a silver lining to us being so talent starved. You can truly go with a "best player available" strategy. I mean you don't need to pick as much based on "need" because almost everything is a need lol. I'd be fine with almost any position except maybe WR unless it's like 6th/7th round or so. So if we pick good/great OL/DL that's fine too.

"KeyFin wrote:

Gotcha, I'm not a "fan" because I don't like the idea of losing 16 games on purpose. Thanks for enlightening me. I personally hate "fans" who would even consider that a viable path.

As I said, this is what you asked for...hopefully you enjoy it!

No I hate fans that come in crowing like they love it. Like you did. RIF. Also see post 28.

"TheHighExhaulted wrote:

Look at you losers picking another team to root for. Pathetic.

The Dolphins suck and will suck for a while. Just suck it up and take the beating.

If there had been some recent successes, losing now would be much easier to take. We as Dolphin fans have had to endure decades of suckitude and this is just downright embarrassing. If people want to pick up a second team for this year, I don’t blame them. Me, I’m going to watch more college games so I know who I hope to see in Miami next year.

I can handle losing, but I can't handle being this darn bad. They didn't have to be this bad to get the number one pick. I don't trust that they can evaluate talent well enough , particularly offensive linemen, in order to complete said rebuild.

I cannot handle being a laughingstock and if any of you can I question how much of a fan any of you are.

"Tin Indian wrote:

I can handle losing, but I can't handle being this darn bad. They didn't have to be this bad to get the number one pick. I don't trust that they can evaluate talent well enough , particularly offensive linemen, in order to complete said rebuild.

I cannot handle being a laughingstock and if any of you can I question how much of a fan any of you are.

Eh being a laughingstock for one season is fine. The question that will be raised is if Flores is a worthy coach. Our defense should not be THAT bad. Our players should not have regressed.

That will be the thing to watch. Can Flores keep people competing, and can young players show growth and improvement. If not, then I question whether he needs to be around to coach .

It's totally obvious after this game that Flores has zero impact on his players. If anyone can't see that after today, then holy crap you need some kind of special glasses.

"Finatik wrote:

No I hate fans that come in crowing like they love it. Like you did. RIF. Also see post 28.

People wanted to Tank for Tua and congrats...we're officially tanking for Tua. You and others have been "crowning" for six months now and sorry, I'm not loving anything about what we saw today. It sickens me....nobody plays the game for that. It's a disgrace to the sport, the NFL and most of all, the players and fans.

As for post #28, Exalted hates everyone for everything. That's nothing new.

I guarantee you that if Miami drafts Tua, spends money wisely and draft picks to surround him with talent, the stadium will sell out, repeatedly. Just take some lomotil, watch another team, go away, whatever you gotta do.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

He should have been smarter and not hired Tannenbaum to do it for him.

I did t like tannenbaum either but what did you expect Ross came into the NFL with no knowledge of running or building a team he thought mike would have given him the best chance to win fast. That didn’t work out and Ross has decided to burn it to the ground and build from scratch. I can’t blame Ross for finally trying something we have needed to do forever.

"Dorfdad wrote:

I did t like tannenbaum either but what did you expect Ross came into the NFL with no knowledge of running or building a team he thought mike would have given him the best chance to win fast. That didn’t work out and Ross has decided to burn it to the ground and build from scratch. I can’t blame Ross for finally trying something we have needed to do forever.

I expected him to try to learn how to do it from experts and improve.

He has not done that.

Couple things...

I believe there was an article that said they approached Gase about the tank... err rebuild and he said no thank you and that's why he was shown the door.

No self respecting coach would sign up for this. You loose your player's trust and they'll ignore their coach. Flores will not survive the season.

Ross will fire Grier as the sacrifical lamb for the tank. He'll bring in a new regime for a "fresh" start with picks and cap room.

"canesz06 wrote:

Didn't we already do this in 2007? What did that get us? Yes, I know we went to the playoffs the next year and lost in round 1 and then back to mediocrity the next year. How is losing every game this year going to help us? Nothing ever changes with this team,

Well we decided to take Jake Wrong instead of a Matt Ryan hence why we slipped back into mediocrity.

This will be my only comment this year.

What we witnessed today was a damn embarrassment. This is the lowest I've ever felt as a fan and I don't care how many draft picks we have next year nor the cap space. There is no way in hell what we saw out there benefits the future of this franchise. Are we really supposed to expect a coaching staff like this - who can't even get the best out of these players - coach up a class of 13+ rookies from next years draft? Are we really supposed to expect there will be a foundation for this incoming mass of rookies to build upon? The product on the field today was not healthy. It was not right. It was an abomination.

I literally wanted to tweet at their Twitter account "F-You" over and over again. But I didn't and frankly I'm tired of this clown show. They don't deserve my devotion anymore. God bless those of you who can subject yourselves to this for ............ quite honestly I don't know. What do you get out of it? You really like watching a Baltimore team not even back off when they're up 52-10 and attempting to run it down their throats again for another TD?

I need a break. I'm getting nothing out of this fanhood. Not even small pockets of life inspiration.

I've watched damn near every Dolphins game since 1970. This one sucked sure as heck. Seen worse, seen better. Gonna see worse, gonna see better.

Don't have to like it or accept it but...

To those of you looking to cheer for another team or stop supporting the Phins all I can say is ALOHA! Peace Out! Don't come back when the Phins are champs again.

"Dorfdad wrote:

it was exactly what I expected. We looked horrible. YOUNG team, NO Oline, Defense with major holes.

Nothing is expected this year NOTHING. Id like to see the team start to "GEL" in 4-5 weeks and next year we can start to evaulate.

This is exactly right. You can’t judge Flores by one game. You have to see if there is improvement over the course of a month or perhaps the whole season. Let’s see how the team develops. If they are playing better in a month, I will be encouraged by Flores.

"cbrad wrote:

I don't think you get it. This is exactly what needs to happen to this franchise. Call it whatever you want, tanking or rebuilding, but we cannot be continuously mired in mediocrity for decades with QB's like Tannehill and coaches like Sparano, Philbin and Gase. You keep Gase and you stay 8-8. You keep Tannehill you stay 8-8 (all on average of course).

No, this is EXACTLY what was needed. So all this "I told you so" stuff is meaningless.

Now.. whether Flores is the right coach or not we'll see, but all these losses will be totally worth it if we pick #1 (or at worst #2) and get ourselves that franchise QB. It's not guaranteed that we succeed, but we'll have a LOT better chance of succeeding this way than by staying the course like you seem to have wanted us to do.

And btw.. great coach Gase lost a totally winnable game today with a QB that looks more like a bust than a franchise QB. Good riddance.

I’m trying to figure out what what it was that he told us so, that we didn’t already know?

You have any idea??

I think it’s important to understand that players are not gonna understand the Tunsil deal, it’s just not in players dna to sacrifice the teams best player for draft picks..it’s a red flag to them and tells them the season is over..hard to get up for that..just is.

Right move though imo.