Tua is not the Problem

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

He didn't. Then he missed an entire season.

I blame Flores more than Grier for the line. That coaching staff was embarrassing for the line.

Also Grier did hire Allen who has a good reputation for finding linemen.

Outside of Laremy Tunsil, who has Grier drafted that’s panned out? This was a problem before Flores arrived.

"JJ_79 wrote:

So you actually think Tannehill is not durable, that’s like one of his strongest traits imo.

His strongest traits are his arm and accuracy.

Imo durable players don't miss the entire season

There's no official "injury" stat from the NFL for whether a starting QB should have started a game or not, but Football Outsiders tracks whether a QB should have started and didn't due to injury, and their average is 84% availability for starting QBs.

Tannehill missed 24 games to injury and started 133 games, so his availability is 133/(133+24) = 84.7% so basically average. Contrary to perception it's similar for Tua: 23/(23+5) = 82.1% though this is obviously a much smaller sample size so not as reliable.

Anyway, Tannehill is about average in terms of durability if you go by games missed due to injury.

"Fireland wrote:

You would have trouble finding too many QBs who you could call durable then.

I wouldn't.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

His strongest traits are his arm and accuracy.

Imo durable players don't miss the entire season

I said „one“, not the first time you’ve been doing this to me… I don’t think there is many QB‘s out there, who shrug of hits like RT does he’s one tough sob. But you seem to differ…

"JJ_79 wrote:

I said „one“, not the first time you’ve been doing this to me… I don’t think there is many QB‘s out there, who shrug of hits like RT does he’s one tough sob. But you seem to differ…

I think any qb who takes hits is tough. I will never say a NFL qb isn't tough

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

Did Brian Flores sabotage Tua Tagovailoa’s development as QB for the Miami Dolphins?

by @MBrave13

https://t.co/yeeUfwBKAm pic.twitter.com/Qnv9qEZo5V

— The Phinsider (@thephinsider) January 17, 2022

IF this story is true, doesn’t fit the narrative that Flo wanted Tua. There’s been reports that he wanted Herbert. Now maybe he sighed off on Tua or maybe Grier said were going to take Tua and Flo went along. So hard to know what to believe in this rumor storm.

What I do know is HC’s know their tenure is likely going to be defined by QB play and it sounds like he didn’t believe in Tua. I can’t blame him for wanting to remedy the situation if Tua wasn’t his first choice and he felt limited by what this team can do with him as our QB.

"mlb1399 wrote:

IF this story is true, doesn’t fit the narrative that Flo wanted Tua. There’s been reports that he wanted Herbert. Now maybe he sighed off on Tua or maybe Grier said were going to take Tua and Flo went along. So hard to know what to believe in this rumor storm.

What I do know is HC’s know their tenure is likely going to be defined by QB play and it sounds like he didn’t believe in Tua. I can’t blame him for wanting to remedy the situation if Tua wasn’t his first choice and he felt limited by what this team can do with him as our QB.

Personally, I don't care if this story is true or false...because it doesn't matter. The only part of that story that would matter is if Flores intentionally started linemen and receivers that weren't ready to make Tua look bad. And if that's true, that's good news in a sick, twisted way since it means that Tua should have a better season next year.

Now, from my personal eye-test, that story bears some truth. Parker wasn't open a single time this season. Gisecki was getting very little separation. Wilson and Grant got open frequently, but one was benched and the other was traded. That left Waddle to catch everything and yeah, he was open early and often.

For the line, I don't think I have to go there...it was historically bad. Possibly the worst starting five for this decade across the NFL. So we can put a check in that box as well. No receivers. No linemen. Just Tua, Waddle and a couple of average backup NFL backs.

But here's the thing- Flores is gone. Tua is here. Only one name matters to us moving forward and that's Tua. Everything else is just gossip and again, I don't care if this was true of false. True means Flores meant to sabotage Tua, false means he sabotaged Tua through incompetence. Either way, it's the same story...we had 8 people on offense that couldn't contribute.

What matters is how we address those 8 positions next year.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

Ignore reality to make your point

The reality is that Tannehill was extremely durable.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

Durable? He missed an entire season

Oh, and EXTREMELY disingenuous of you to not mention that he was injured on a dirty hit.

"mlb1399 wrote:

IF this story is true, doesn’t fit the narrative that Flo wanted Tua. There’s been reports that he wanted Herbert. Now maybe he sighed off on Tua or maybe Grier said were going to take Tua and Flo went along. So hard to know what to believe in this rumor storm.

What I do know is HC’s know their tenure is likely going to be defined by QB play and it sounds like he didn’t believe in Tua. I can’t blame him for wanting to remedy the situation if Tua wasn’t his first choice and he felt limited by what this team can do with him as our QB.

Flo gave up on players quicker than any coach I've seen. We gave up on Flowers, Van Noy and Lawson after one season each and he signed off on bringing them in. For a coach known to inspire confidence from his players, he felt no compulsion to reciprocate loyalty to them. I can easily believe he signed off on Tua but once he saw that Tua wasn't a guy who worked out all six days between games, he decided he didn't want him. Flo knows that his Uncle Bill's success was mostly because he latched onto the GOAT and none of his contemporaries (Eric Mangini, Charlie Weiss, Romeo Crennel, etc.) got away with the a**hole in a hoodie shtick without a stud QB. Only O'Brien had a decent tenure (with Watson) until his Belichickness finally rubbed his best players the wrong way.

I believe Flo signed off on Tua and I believe he gave up on him almost immediately because he's that guy.

"resnor wrote:

Oh, and EXTREMELY disingenuous of you to not mention that he was injured on a dirty hit.

The ONLY thing that Tannehill did to bug me was decide to rehab his knee instead of getting surgery for it with a full offseason for rehab. I was watching every hit he took the next season, expecting him to reinjure it. Of course, it took Calais Campbell to hit him low to make it happen.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1483093813136666626

This sort of thing is just pointless. Comparing one of the leagues worst situations with one of the better ones, of course there's a difference. Not that Ben is one of the best QB's, some Steelers fans would have liked to have seen a change done sooner, but this is just pointing out a stable QB situation to a an unstable one.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

Did Brian Flores sabotage Tua Tagovailoa’s development as QB for the Miami Dolphins?

by @MBrave13

https://t.co/yeeUfwBKAm pic.twitter.com/Qnv9qEZo5V

— The Phinsider (@thephinsider) January 17, 2022

I think the better question is whether somebody within the organization sabotaged (unintentionally) Brian Flores's development as a head coach. When you consider the level at which the offense was playing with Fitzpatrick in 2020, coupled with what the defense was doing at the time, the team would've been projected to make the playoffs and possibly even win a playoff game. Of course there was no guarantee of that because Fitzpatrick's history is inconsistent with sustaining that level of play, but if it would've happened it would've changed the trajectory of Flores's reputation and career considerably -- making the playoffs in only year two of a complete team rebuild, with a journeyman QB. That's quite a feat.

The question is, was he on board with forsaking that for the insertion of a rookie QB and the inevitable decrease in performance in the most important aspect of the game (pass offense), or did somebody force his hand on that? If somebody indeed forced his hand on that, I don't imagine he took too kindly to having his career potentially derailed in that way. As it was the team surmounted the decrease in performance of the pass offense with unlikely and largely non-replicable defensive and special teams plays, but they would've been considerably better by continuing with Fitzpatrick if he would've sustained his level of performance.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

His strongest traits are his arm and accuracy.

Imo durable players don't miss the entire season

Tom Brady missed an entire season too. Guess he's injury prone?

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

Flo gave up on players quicker than any coach I've seen. We gave up on Flowers, Van Noy and Lawson after one season each and he signed off on bringing them in. For a coach known to inspire confidence from his players, he felt no compulsion to reciprocate loyalty to them. I can easily believe he signed off on Tua but once he saw that Tua wasn't a guy who worked out all six days between games, he decided he didn't want him. Flo knows that his Uncle Bill's success was mostly because he latched onto the GOAT and none of his contemporaries (Eric Mangini, Charlie Weiss, Romeo Crennel, etc.) got away with the a**hole in a hoodie shtick without a stud QB. Only O'Brien had a decent tenure (with Watson) until his Belichickness finally rubbed his best players the wrong way.

I believe Flo signed off on Tua and I believe he gave up on him almost immediately because he's that guy.

Not concerning to you that a QB with limited size and arm strength would not be a harder worker?

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

Flo gave up on players quicker than any coach I've seen. We gave up on Flowers, Van Noy and Lawson after one season each and he signed off on bringing them in. For a coach known to inspire confidence from his players, he felt no compulsion to reciprocate loyalty to them. I can easily believe he signed off on Tua but once he saw that Tua wasn't a guy who worked out all six days between games, he decided he didn't want him. Flo knows that his Uncle Bill's success was mostly because he latched onto the GOAT and none of his contemporaries (Eric Mangini, Charlie Weiss, Romeo Crennel, etc.) got away with the a**hole in a hoodie shtick without a stud QB. Only O'Brien had a decent tenure (with Watson) until his Belichickness finally rubbed his best players the wrong way.

I believe Flo signed off on Tua and I believe he gave up on him almost immediately because he's that guy.

Or he didn’t want Tua to begin with and didn’t want his career as a coach limited by his QB. I can’t blame him for that.

"Dolfanalyst wrote:

I think the better question is whether somebody within the organization sabotaged (unintentionally) Brian Flores's development as a head coach. When you consider the level at which the offense was playing with Fitzpatrick in 2020, coupled with what the defense was doing at the time, the team would've been projected to make the playoffs and possibly even win a playoff game. Of course there was no guarantee of that because Fitzpatrick's history is inconsistent with sustaining that level of play, but if it would've happened it would've changed the trajectory of Flores's reputation and career considerably -- making the playoffs in only year two of a complete team rebuild, with a journeyman QB. That's quite a feat.

The question is, was he on board with forsaking that for the insertion of a rookie QB and the inevitable decrease in performance in the most important aspect of the game (pass offense), or did somebody force his hand on that? If somebody indeed forced his hand on that, I don't imagine he took too kindly to having his career potentially derailed in that way. As it was the team surmounted the decrease in performance of the pass offense with unlikely and largely non-replicable defensive and special teams plays, but they would've been considerably better by continuing with Fitzpatrick if he would've sustained his level of performance.

If you really look at their schedule last year its hard to come up with how they get the +1 win. They probably beat Denver but probably lose to Arizona because that is the best Tua has ever played.

I think it depends on whether you believe the stories of the past week. If you do then Tua going in was all Flores.

"mlb1399 wrote:

Or he didn’t want Tua to begin with and didn’t want his career as a coach limited by his QB. I can’t blame him for that.

Flores tried to make Tua work. Otherwise, he would have kep Gailey. Wouldn't have hired Frye. Wouldn't have built entire new RPO scheme.

Flo sees Tua every day in practice, not just on Sundays. He wanted to pull the plug. He didn't see the talent level. We'll see who was right, but if I had to guess, it's not going to be the organization that hasn't won in the playoffs in 20+ years.

"StaleTacos wrote:

Flores tried to make Tua work. Otherwise, he would have kep Gailey. Wouldn't have hired Frye. Wouldn't have built entire new RPO scheme.

Flo sees Tua every day in practice, not just on Sundays. He wanted to pull the plug. He didn't see the talent level. We'll see who was right, but if I had to guess, it's not going to be the organization that hasn't won in the playoffs in 20+ years.

Trying to make it work doesn't mean he did a good job making it work

"Fireland wrote:

Trying to make it work doesn't mean he did a good job making it work

Wait until the team goes backwards next season. It'll be pretty clear he did the best with what he was given.

"Fireland wrote:

Trying to make it work doesn't mean he did a good job making it work

I’ll give a first time HC a little slack while he’s learning on the job. I won’t give the GM who selected him any slack. Especially, when that GM isn’t smart enough to build a good OL to protect the fragile QB he selected in the first place.

"mlb1399 wrote:

I’ll give a first time HC a little slack while he’s learning on the job. I won’t give the GM who selected him any slack. Especially, when that GM isn’t smart enough to build a good OL to protect the fragile QB he selected in the first place.

No slack for 4 offensive coordinators in 3 years. Which was certainly going to become 5 in 4. Repeat that for offensive line coaches.