Tua keep or not Tua keep...

If Chan Gailey is still here it doesn't much matter but I've already voiced that I have seen enough of him. Even if he's good Chan Gailey will ruin him ala Mike Sherman and Tannehill.

Tua keep 100000%.
If you have any doubt of him long term, trade down the 3 overall to put yourself in position to move up in 2022's draft.

Here are my reasons:
Tua is one year removed from major hip surgery and is still recovering or has been instructed to play extremely conservatively as evident by how he plays when he runs for yardage and the how Gailey utilized him the first half of games.

Practice squad or worse level of talent by the WR corp. He did fine in the rare instances where everyone was available (Williams, Parker) but once we started depending on Mack Hollins to be our primary receiving threat he was dealing with a historically bad WR corp.

No sustainable running game to take the pressure off him. You can argue our defense made up for it but not offensively.

3 rookie OL on an OL that was inconsistent on a weekly basis.

Chan Gailey seemingly employed a strategy of failure the first half of most games that Tua played in, putting him difficult situations later on.

COVID shortened training camp and no preseason for a rookie.

Looking behind his back at Fitz who not only had a fantastic season but also won over the locker room.

Tua has every right to come back as the unquestioned starter next year.

The one and ONLY scenario that changes my mind is if Trevor Lawrence says I'm not playing in Jacksonville and Miami can move up to grab him. I'm not sure if I give up Tua, #3 and #18 to do so but I may consider it.

Tua is the starting quarterback next season. No doubt.

He deserves a full-offseason and a better roster on offense.

"Bumrush wrote:

Tua keep 100000%.
If you have any doubt of him long term, trade down the 3 overall to put yourself in position to move up in 2022's draft.

Here are my reasons:
Tua is one year removed from major hip surgery and is still recovering or has been instructed to play extremely conservatively as evident by how he plays when he runs for yardage and the how Gailey utilized him the first half of games.

Practice squad or worse level of talent by the WR corp. He did fine in the rare instances where everyone was available (Williams, Parker) but once we started depending on Mack Hollins to be our primary receiving threat he was dealing with a historically bad WR corp.

No sustainable running game to take the pressure off him. You can argue our defense made up for it but not offensively.

3 rookie OL on an OL that was inconsistent on a weekly basis.

Chan Gailey seemingly employed a strategy of failure the first half of most games that Tua played in, putting him difficult situations later on.

COVID shortened training camp and no preseason for a rookie.

Looking behind his back at Fitz who not only had a fantastic season but also won over the locker room.

Tua has every right to come back as the unquestioned starter next year.

I agree with just about everything you said with the exception of the offensive line. Comparing to years past, I thought overall they played quite well.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

I agree with just about everything you said with the exception of the offensive line. Comparing to years past, I thought overall they played quite well.

A pile of dung would look good compared to what Gase and Philbin had along the OL.

Relative to that they did look good. Relative the rest of the NFL they were inconsistent at best. Tua got destroyed multiple times and our RB's were at or were close to the bottom at yards per attempt.

"Bumrush wrote:

If you have any doubt of him long term, trade down the 3 overall to put yourself in position to move up in 2022's draft.

I would trade down regardless. The #3 pick should be highly coveted, and we can pick a top rated WR with a top 10 pick. I would only trade down to #6 or #7 just to make sure we get our first choice at WR (hopefully Chase), but whatever the case there should be a bidding war we can take advantage of.

Anyway, with some extra talent on offense, especially at WR and RB, and a full offseason of work and study, I fully expect Tua to be an above average QB (even if only slightly) in 2021.

As much as I don’t think he’s going to develop into a franchise QB, I have a really hard time believing Miami is ready to move on from him.

"cbrad wrote:

I would trade down regardless. The #3 pick should be highly coveted, and we can pick a top rated WR with a top 10 pick. I would only trade down to #6 or #7 just to make sure we get our first choice at WR (hopefully Chase), but whatever the case there should be a bidding war we can take advantage of.

Anyway, with some extra talent on offense, especially at WR and RB, and a full offseason of work and study, I fully expect Tua to be an above average QB (even if only slightly) in 2021.

If we trade down, which I’m not completely opposed to, we had better get a lot in return.

Although it figuratively broke my heart to see certain Dolphins traded away, I was immensely impressed with the draft capital we received in the process.

I would imagine that 3rd draft pick would be worth its weight in platinum. I’d love to be able to have two 1st round draft picks 3 years in a row.

To quote the legendary Keith Jackson...WHOA NELLIE!!!

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

If we trade down, which I’m not completely opposed to, we had better get a lot in return.

Although it figuratively broke my heart to see certain Dolphins traded away, I was immensely impressed with the draft capital we received in the process.

I would imagine that 3rd draft pick would be worth its weight in platinum. I’d love to be able to have two 1st round draft picks 3 years in a row.

To quote the legendary Keith Jackson...WHOA NELLIE!!!

Here's the draft trade value chart that serves as a baseline:
https://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php

Note how valuable #3 is compared to #4, so it's good we have the #3. If we trade down to #7 or so, that's the equivalent of a low 1st rounder this year. So I anticipate any trade down will give us a 1st rounder next year (equivalent to a 2nd this year), and a 3rd rounder this year IF there's no bidding war. Other possibilities are a 1st and 2nd next year OR a 1st in 2021 and a 1st in 2022. All are of comparable value given how picks tend to be traded.

With a bidding war that could get a lot better. I would definitely trade down, especially if we're targeting a WR with our first pick because we can get the guy we want ~5 picks later.

From the man Flores himself at his press conference.

Tua is the starting quarterback.

"cbrad wrote:

Here's the draft trade value chart that serves as a baseline:
https://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php

Note how valuable #3 is compared to #4, so it's good we have the #3. If we trade down to #7 or so, that's the equivalent of a low 1st rounder this year. So I anticipate any trade down will give us a 1st rounder next year (equivalent to a 2nd this year), and a 3rd rounder this year IF there's no bidding war. Other possibilities are a 1st and 2nd next year OR a 1st in 2021 and a 1st in 2022. All are of comparable value given how picks tend to be traded.

With a bidding war that could get a lot better. I would definitely trade down, especially if we're targeting a WR with our first pick because we can get that guy ~5 picks later.

Yea but only if there’s a bidding war...or a team is so desperate that they’ll sell us their daughter (figuratively) for that pick.

I don’t want to trade down for the sake of trading down. If we do, I want something spectacular for it.

"cbrad wrote:

I would trade down regardless. The #3 pick should be highly coveted, and we can pick a top rated WR with a top 10 pick. I would only trade down to #6 or #7 just to make sure we get our first choice at WR (hopefully Chase), but whatever the case there should be a bidding war we can take advantage of.

Anyway, with some extra talent on offense, especially at WR and RB, and a full offseason of work and study, I fully expect Tua to be an above average QB (even if only slightly) in 2021.

I agree. If the Jets don't take a QB and Fields is on the board at #3, there will be plenty of suitors to take that pick off our hands. The only problem is, we won't get those calls until we're on the clock. I can't see a reason not to trade back unless you want to take the best LB or OT in the country...which are certainly options. But I'd rather pick closer to 7-10 with extra draft capital for good measure.

"TheHighExhaulted wrote:

From the man Flores himself at his press conference.

Tua is the starting quarterback.

I'm sorry it was Grier who said this. Tua haters you can cry from now until September.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

Yea but only if there’s a bidding war...or a team is so desperate that they’ll sell us their daughter (figuratively) for that pick.

I don’t want to trade down for the sake of trading down. If we do, I want something spectacular for it.

Depends on who you are targeting. If you're targeting a top WR, then you can trade down for the sake of trading down because a top WR will be available even 5 picks later. If you are targeting Penei Sewell then you can't trade down.

No way is Miami giving up on him next year or the year after..

Name me a GM that has moved on from a top 5 QB within the next 3 years? I hate to say it but even if Tua underperforms next year except the Dolphins GM to give him an extra year. Its the name of the game. Thats why busting on a QB sets your franchise down for years....

if we can acquire some decent receivers , then a fair judgment can be made on Tua. Problem is the OC looks like he will still be in a job next season.

"Bumrush wrote:

A pile of dung would look good compared to what Gase and Philbin had along the OL.

Relative to that they did look good. Relative the rest of the NFL they were inconsistent at best. Tua got destroyed multiple times and our RB's were at or were close to the bottom at yards per attempt.

I thought we started Dung under Philbin and Gase?

We started 3 rookies half the season and 2 of them all season. These guys didn't get a proper training camp or offseason program. They still played better than the hot garbage we had in years past. I think with a proper offseason and S&C program there will be a huge improvement out of them (the rookies). I am not wild about Flowers, I thought it was telling that our best running production came with him out of the lineup and Kindley at Left Guard. I can roll with our center another year but he is marginal as well.

"cbrad wrote:

I would trade down regardless. The #3 pick should be highly coveted, and we can pick a top rated WR with a top 10 pick. I would only trade down to #6 or #7 just to make sure we get our first choice at WR (hopefully Chase), but whatever the case there should be a bidding war we can take advantage of.

Anyway, with some extra talent on offense, especially at WR and RB, and a full offseason of work and study, I fully expect Tua to be an above average QB (even if only slightly) in 2021.

I agree with all of this except I have a preference for Smith. I wouldn't have a fit though if they did grab Chase.

"Tin Indian wrote:

I agree with all of this except I have a preference for Smith. I wouldn't have a fit though if they did grab Chase.

Waddle's the 3rd guy that's possible. He was just cleared to practice and might play for Alabama in the title game. If he plays really well we can even drop down to #10 or so and still pick a top WR because he's also been hyped a ton, except that he's been out with an injury.

Or, if he doesn't play well, there's a good chance he slides to #18. Can you imagine? We pick Chase (or Smith.. I'm also fine with that) AND Waddle with our 2 firsts after trading down to get another 1st rounder next year, and possibly more?

That's almost a dream scenario but realistic. Then you pick Harris or Etienne with our 1st 2nd rounder. VERY excited with what this draft could do for this team.

"cbrad wrote:

Waddle's the 3rd guy that's possible. He was just cleared to practice and might play for Alabama in the title game. If he plays really well we can even drop down to #10 or lower and still pick a top WR because he's also been hyped a ton, except that he's been out with an injury.

Or, if he doesn't play well, there's a good chance he slides to #18. Can you imagine? We pick Chase (or Smith.. I'm also fine with that) AND Waddle with our 2 firsts after trading down to get another 1st rounder next year, and possibly more?

That's almost a dream scenario but realistic. Then you pick Harris or Etienne with our 1st 2nd rounder. VERY excited with what this draft could do for this team.

That would be an unbelievable stroke of luck! It would completely remake the weapons on offense in the space of 2 days! And between Harris or Etienne I love Harris's size. He is a poor mans Henry and may be a little faster.

Seems Tua will be our starter next year and I am ok with that. So if we are set with our starting QB who will be our backup? Will Fitz return? Will the Dolphins want him back? I think that is a very important position to fill. As far as the draft, the possibilities are endless. Could be a very entertaining draft.

"ripper1961 wrote:

Seems Tua will be our starter next year and I am ok with that. So if we are set with our starting QB who will be our backup? Will Fitz return? Will the Dolphins want him back? I think that is a very important position to fill. As far as the draft, the possibilities are endless. Could be a very entertaining draft.

I would love to have Fitz back but I don't think that's likely and perhaps not wise as a potential distraction. I think they should grab a later round QB to develop but maybe we should be looking at some experienced backups that may come available. have to look for a list a pending FA's.

"cbrad wrote:

Waddle's the 3rd guy that's possible. He was just cleared to practice and might play for Alabama in the title game. If he plays really well we can even drop down to #10 or so and still pick a top WR because he's also been hyped a ton, except that he's been out with an injury.

Or, if he doesn't play well, there's a good chance he slides to #18. Can you imagine? We pick Chase (or Smith.. I'm also fine with that) AND Waddle with our 2 firsts after trading down to get another 1st rounder next year, and possibly more?

That's almost a dream scenario but realistic. Then you pick Harris or Etienne with our 1st 2nd rounder. VERY excited with what this draft could do for this team.

Almost hoping he doesn’t play in the championship; that might enhance the possibility of a slide to #18. I was just talking about this scenario earlier at work - it would be as transformative as it would be mind boggling to get such talent in one fell swoop.

"mlb1399 wrote:

As much as I don’t think he’s going to develop into a franchise QB, I have a really hard time believing Miami is ready to move on from him.

We don't have to move on from Tua. That's the good thing here. We bring in another possible franchise QB to compete. If Tua works out, we trade the other guy away in 2022. IF the other guy outplays him as a rookie, we trade Tua away in 2022.

You don't get to pick #3 or higher very often. It won't happen with Miami's own pick as long as Flores is here (he's too good to only win 4-5 games unless you gut the team again).

If you pass on a QB with that #3 pick, trading down for an extra 2022 first rounder for example, Miami will need to trade BOTH first rounders in 2022 plus a second and maybe even a bit more to get back to #3 or higher.

In other words? Pay the #3 pick in 2021 for a QB, who you can trade away in 2022 for a late first or second rounder if Tua pans out. Or trade down from #3 to get an extra 2022 first; then trade that pick and Miami's own first and second rounder to get a QB in 2022. Also, 2022 looks to be a poor QB draft, compared to 2021.

Which option costs less in draft capital? Which option maximizes Miami's chances of finding a franchise QB?