Tua Might Be Out Multiple Weeks

"pumpdogs wrote:

Meant last week when he got pulled.

He was playing with a hurt foot, which was obviously effecting him because even the announcers noted it.

"TheHighExhaulted wrote:

Yet in the NFL he's 3-1, 6 TDs 0 picks with elite talent lacking at every single position on offense.

Giving Tua credit for those 3 wins would be like me taking credit for the sun rising.

Giving any credit to anything besides the defense and special teams would be very disingenuous. That isn’t just a knock on Tua. Our offense is woefully bad. The conundrum of Fitz vs Tua is the same one who can consistently get our offense going is the one who also turns it over too much. I’m hoping Tua becomes some combo of both QB’s.

"mlb1399 wrote:

Giving Tua credit for those 3 wins would be like me taking credit for the sun rising.

Giving any credit to anything besides the defense and special teams would be very disingenuous. That isn’t just a knock on Tua. Our offense is woefully bad. The conundrum of Fitz vs Tua is the same one who can consistently get our offense going is the one who also turns it over too much. I’m hoping Tua becomes some combo of both QB’s.

Sorry but quarterbacks will always be associated with wins and losses. You can't nitpick which games were won by a big defensive play or special teams play and all of a sudden it doesn't count.

"Ronnie Bass wrote:

I got a buddy who keeps telling me how fragile Tua is - this sure won't shut him up.

I really don't want to bring it up, but he's missed multiple games per season all the way back to his freshman year in high school. He's NEVER played a full season at any level. That's the only reason I didn't want to draft him.

It's still super early though and he's already showed flashes...I think he'll be just fine long term. My bigger concern is getting a quality backup for the post-Fitz era though because Tua tends to miss games over smaller injuries.

It is a freak injury... though multiple weeks for a thumb sounds more severe than they want to report.

ill just say this as i said many times before, being a franchise quarterback is not just winning and stats, it also means being available. The teams that have quarterbacks missing games constantly almost never succeed.

"Vertical Limit wrote:

It is a freak injury... though multiple weeks for a thumb sounds more severe than they want to report.

ill just say this as i said many times before, being a franchise quarterback is not just winning and stats, it also means being available. The teams that have quarterbacks missing games constantly almost never succeed.

While I agree with you, almost every starting quarterback in the league has missed significant time at some point throughout their career.
Darnold, Newton, Roethlisberger, Burrow, Tannehill, Minshew, Watson, Mahomes, Carr, Taylor, Lock, Wentz, Alex Smith, Dak Prescott, Daniel Jones, Aaron Rodgers, Stafford, Trubisky, Brady, Brees, Bridgewater, Jimmy G have all suffered injuries at some point in their careers. That leaves Josh Allen, Mayfield, Lamar Jackson, Rivers, Cousins, Matt Ryan, Murray, Goff, and Wilson as the only QB's to have remained durable.

"TheHighExhaulted wrote:

Sorry but quarterbacks will always be associated with wins and losses. You can't nitpick which games were won by a big defensive play or special teams play and all of a sudden it doesn't count.

And you can’t ignore the context you were attempting to use.

"pumpdogs wrote:

So how do you know the player is actually good?5 yard slant turns into 80 yd pass for td?Was it the Qb or wr that's runs a 4.3.You sure aren't seeing that now are you?

The Chinese have a saying; "The longest journey starts with the first step".

I always thought that was obvious.

The same thing goes for pass catchers; the first step of his journey is to get the ball from the QB. The QB can't run it for him but he can help make sure the receiver can get the ball. It takes two to Tango.

6 ft QB, 5 injuries and 3 surgeries in college, ("hurt in college, hurt in the pros"), the last major injury that required surgery was just a year ago, In college he played with an all star cast of WRs, OL, DL and RB, etc.

"pumpdogs wrote:

So how do you know the player is actually good?5 yard slant turns into 80 yd pass for td?Was it the Qb or wr that's runs a 4.3.You sure aren't seeing that now are you?

Scouts and GMs are paid to do more than watch the game on network TV man and read a Stat sheet dude.

Again, by your argument you literally cannot take anyone from a great program. Why take a WR, it was all the OL and QB getting them time and the ball. Why take an OL when it was a great WR and QB tandem. Why take a great safety when you have a great pass rush. Oh, you think that DE is great? Nah, must be the corner backs actually.

"Sceeto wrote:

6 ft QB, 5 injuries and 3 surgeries in college, ("hurt in college, hurt in the pros"), the last major injury that required surgery was just a year ago, In college he played with an all star cast of WRs, OL, DL and RB, etc.

Trevor Lawrence plays with an all star cast. Better not draft him!

"texanphinatic wrote:

Scouts and GMs are paid to do more than watch the game on network TV man and read a Stat sheet dude.

Again, by your argument you literally cannot take anyone from a great program. Why take a WR, it was all the OL and QB getting them time and the ball. Why take an OL when it was a great WR and QB tandem. Why take a great safety when you have a great pass rush. Oh, you think that DE is great? Nah, must be the corner backs actually.

I think it's a legitimate concern on Alabama QB's the way they're out-drafting the rest of the country. The should honestly change their name to "1st Round U" and be done with it.

For instance, both Fitz and Tua have thrown to Parker/Williams A TON this season when they're not really open...they're just pure 50/50 balls that we'll win almost every time in single coverage. Credit the QB for getting the ball there, but those big-time catches does cover up a lot of the other stuff and pads the stat sheets.

When you have those dynamic playmakers, it's easy to forget that it's not all the QB like in more traditional offenses. And that's not a knock on Tua, but a lot of people are in "show me" mode because of it.

"KeyFin wrote:

I think it's a legitimate concern on Alabama QB's the way they're out-drafting the rest of the country. The should honestly change their name to "1st Round U" and be done with it.

For instance, both Fitz and Tua have thrown to Parker/Williams A TON this season when they're not really open...they're just pure 50/50 balls that we'll win almost every time in single coverage. Credit the QB for getting the ball there, but those big-time catches does cover up a lot of the other stuff and pads the stat sheets.

When you have those dynamic playmakers, it's easy to forget that it's not all the QB like in more traditional offenses. And that's not a knock on Tua, but a lot of people are in "show me" mode because of it.

No, you just can't discount players for that. It's possible a good team hides a few bad players, but that's why you have the scouts and such to dig in and really review things.

And Alabama isn't the singular factory it was in the first few years of Sabans tenure. Ohio State and Clemson are both in that echelon, and LSU, Georgia, Oklahoma and such are there as well.

The biggest issue with Bama players imo is that they often seemed to come maxed out and didn't continue to grow or develop. However, some of their recent skill players seem to have broken that mold, and they never had recruited a QB like Tua either. They changed their entire offense to be more modern and are now going after elite QBs in a way they never had to until DeSean Watson pasted them.

"TheHighExhaulted wrote:

As what?

Punter makes the most sense.

In all seriousness, I’m thinking of him as a backup. I’m hoping Tua heals and works out, but Fitz has proven that he’s fine with taking the backup role and it really helps to have a guy that is familiar with all the players that can step in when things like this happen. If nothing else I’m thinking of the continuity of the team. He is also seems willing to mentor Tua. if that’s all he does next season...awesome. But I’m not sure how you let a very serviceable player leave the organization.

"KeyFin wrote:

I really don't want to bring it up, but he's missed multiple games per season all the way back to his freshman year in high school. He's NEVER played a full season at any level. That's the only reason I didn't want to draft him.

It's still super early though and he's already showed flashes...I think he'll be just fine long term. My bigger concern is getting a quality backup for the post-Fitz era though because Tua tends to miss games over smaller injuries.

This, past performance is the biggest indicator of future results. I don't know how anybody could think he would all of a sudden be less injury prone in the NFL, where everybody runs faster and hits harder.

"texanphinatic wrote:

Scouts and GMs are paid to do more than watch the game on network TV man and read a Stat sheet dude.

Again, by your argument you literally cannot take anyone from a great program. Why take a WR, it was all the OL and QB getting them time and the ball. Why take an OL when it was a great WR and QB tandem. Why take a great safety when you have a great pass rush. Oh, you think that DE is great? Nah, must be the corner backs actually.

I dont agree with the way he phrased it or his overall insinuation that any player or QB from a major program is fools gold.

That said, I do agree with his take on Tua specifically. The fact it when you look at the tape you dont see anything different from a Matt Leinart except some pocket mobility.

It's not fair to discount people who actually watched him play and came to the conclusion "This guy isnt NFL level in his skillset"

It's fine to disagree, but in the end what I hear from fans is this:

Dolphins need QB, Tua is QB, TUA GOOD!

"texanphinatic wrote:

Scouts and GMs are paid to do more than watch the game on network TV man and read a Stat sheet dude.

Again, by your argument you literally cannot take anyone from a great program. Why take a WR, it was all the OL and QB getting them time and the ball. Why take an OL when it was a great WR and QB tandem. Why take a great safety when you have a great pass rush. Oh, you think that DE is great? Nah, must be the corner backs actually.[/QUOTE
Will see.I remember many florida Qbs that put up stellar numbers surrounded by all star talent that did squat in Nfl!
Why?Thier game was masked by talent around them and skill set did not translate to Nfl game.

"texanphinatic wrote:

No, you just can't discount players for that. It's possible a good team hides a few bad players, but that's why you have the scouts and such to dig in and really review things.

And Alabama isn't the singular factory it was in the first few years of Sabans tenure. Ohio State and Clemson are both in that echelon, and LSU, Georgia, Oklahoma and such are there as well.

The biggest issue with Bama players imo is that they often seemed to come maxed out and didn't continue to grow or develop. However, some of their recent skill players seem to have broken that mold, and they never had recruited a QB like Tua either. They changed their entire offense to be more modern and are now going after elite QBs in a way they never had to until DeSean Watson pasted them.

I didn't say discount- you don't discount an elite player because he's surrounded by 10 other elite players. I'm just saying the sum of their parts makes it harder to evaluate individual talent. For instance, some have said here that Tua was a pure pocket passer, which is always true when your QB never has a need to leave the pocket. That's not what we're seeing today though. The same goes for those Alabama receivers- if they were 1:1, throw it their way and it was a big completion....and probably a TD. That doesn't work at the NFL level.

Again, that's not a knock on anyone...but Alabama (and a few others like you said) have mastered high school scouting/recruiting. If you're the elite of the elite, then you're probably looking at Alabama or Clemson 1st to maximize your college career.

I've said it many times, and I'll say it again...i became an Alabama fan like 20 years ago, as I had a couple friends in college who were big Bama fans, so I've watched most every Alabama game, and I never watched Tua and thought, "MAN, I hope the Dolphins can draft this kid.". He just never seemed to be the guy running the show.

Like others have said, I hope I'm wrong, and I hope that Tua is the guy. I know he was hyped by all the smart people and all the talking heads.

"ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:

While I agree with you, almost every starting quarterback in the league has missed significant time at some point throughout their career.
Darnold, Newton, Roethlisberger, Burrow, Tannehill, Minshew, Watson, Mahomes, Carr, Taylor, Lock, Wentz, Alex Smith, Dak Prescott, Daniel Jones, Aaron Rodgers, Stafford, Trubisky, Brady, Brees, Bridgewater, Jimmy G have all suffered injuries at some point in their careers. That leaves Josh Allen, Mayfield, Lamar Jackson, Rivers, Cousins, Matt Ryan, Murray, Goff, and Wilson as the only QB's to have remained durable.

You just named a bunch of quarterbacks with the exception of maybe 3 or 4 that have had actual consistent success the last 5 years. That have gone deep into the playoffs consistently.

"flounder97 wrote:

Punter makes the most sense.

In all seriousness, I’m thinking of him as a backup. I’m hoping Tua heals and works out, but Fitz has proven that he’s fine with taking the backup role and it really helps to have a guy that is familiar with all the players that can step in when things like this happen. If nothing else I’m thinking of the continuity of the team. He is also seems willing to mentor Tua. if that’s all he does next season...awesome. But I’m not sure how you let a very serviceable player leave the organization.

Isn't Fritz a free agent next year?

"Vertical Limit wrote:

You just named a bunch of quarterbacks with the exception of maybe 3 or 4 that have had actual consistent success the last 5 years. That have gone deep into the playoffs consistently.

You missed the point. I'm simply saying that it's quite normal for football players to suffer injuries. Their playoff track record is irrelevant. I'm simply stating the fact that all of these starting quarterbacks have had significant injuries.

"KeyFin wrote:

I didn't say discount- you don't discount an elite player because he's surrounded by 10 other elite players. I'm just saying the sum of their parts makes it harder to evaluate individual talent. For instance, some have said here that Tua was a pure pocket passer, which is always true when your QB never has a need to leave the pocket. That's not what we're seeing today though. The same goes for those Alabama receivers- if they were 1:1, throw it their way and it was a big completion....and probably a TD. That doesn't work at the NFL level.

Again, that's not a knock on anyone...but Alabama (and a few others like you said) have mastered high school scouting/recruiting. If you're the elite of the elite, then you're probably looking at Alabama or Clemson 1st to maximize your college career.

I havent seen many claim hes a purely pocket passer. The claim I've seen more, and my personal claim, is that hes a lot more mobile than your standard Drew Bledsoe statue but doesnt compare to guys you would consider a "Dual Threat".

Those guys typically have more than straight line speed, they have better agility and quick twitch acceleration.

I've said this 100x but I really think Tua needs to hit the weight room and increase his arm talent/strength. If he can do that, in my opinion a lot more of his game will come together cohesively in my opinion.

I'm not talking about his arm when he can step into it over the middle and sling it, I'm talking about throwing when conditions arent ideal or to the outside hashes. That is where I feel he is behind currently.

Tua most definitely has got a long way to go. I'm not arguing that at all. Maybe I'm simply misunderstanding the perception of him from a few of you. Is it the one bad game against Denver and that's it for you guys? Or is it more, Tua just simply isn't ready?
For me personally, I didn't like the initial switch back in October. I thought Fitzpatrick should have remained in place as the starter. I though Tua should have been redshirted this year. Then...we make the switch. We don't lose, Tua manages the games he's played in, but his only truly impressive showing comes in thrilling fashion against Arizona. So...we've seen the talent...It's there. Is that it? Was this just a preview? I'm fine with that if so. I'm fine with Fitzpatrick finishing out the year. It's just a bit puzzling for me personally. I've never seen it done that way. It's created a bit of confusion.

"ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:

You missed the point. I'm simply saying that it's quite normal for football players to suffer injuries. Their playoff track record is irrelevant. I'm simply stating the fact that all of these starting quarterbacks have had significant injuries.

Yes and my point is, those starting quarterbacks with injuries are doing as expected, taking their franchise on a treadmill ride.

Tannehill is a clear example..

missed 25 games his last 3 seasons in Miami... we did nothing, got to a playoff game with Moore and we got destroyed, looked like we didnt belong..

Tannehill in Tennessee - has yet to miss a game, went to the conference championships and is currently in the division lead.