Who’s to blame for the shitty defense?

"KeyFin wrote:

I'm trying to be patient with Flores/Grier and I did not expect to win either of the first two games. Competing in both was nice but I saw reasons to worry in both contests. Last week, our receivers got zero separation (thanks to holding). This week, they still got next to zero separation and we had to rely on talent to win 50/50 balls. Gisecki & Ford stepped up while Preston Williams dropped the potential game-winning pass...and then we go right back to him on the 2-point conversion.

Also, why did we not kick a field goal on 4th and 1 from the 1? Looking at the final score, that would have tied the game and sent us to overtime. I know it's not fair 2nd guessing after the fact, but we had just wasted 3 downs without our best short-distance back on the field and the odds of scoring a TD were low. Take the points.

I questioned several moves on Flores today and I have to say, I'm not impressed so far this season. Very little pressure from our front 7. Mixed secondary coverages. Poor line blocking both passing and running. Poor route running. Just a lot of sloppy play in particular and some discipline-related penalties.

Entering the 2nd season and flipping the entire roster, I don't see the team that's going to turn into a "perennial playoff contender" just yet. That doesn't mean we won't get there, but that also means we had a 3-year rebuild to go from an average team to what....maybe an average team at best in year 3? That's just not good enough and I really doubt Flores/Grier makes it the full five years without some playoff games. Our trend is to fire in year 3 and I think that would be a catastrophic mistake for this franchise (just like I think it was a catastrophic mistake to fire Gase). I'm just so fed up with the 3-year rebuild cycle.

It's too soon to demand excellence today and COVID certainly didn't help, but I think it's going to be a long season and these types of cries to "fire the staff" are only going to get louder.

On the 4th and 1, Dolphins had 13 points. Still would have been down by 1. Going for it was fine.

"Not So Fast wrote:

On the 4th and 1, Dolphins had 13 points. Still would have been down by 1. Going for it was fine.

Agreed. It was the half yard line. I totally disagree with the play calling though.

Def worried about the defense, griers free agents signing Lawson and Ogbah need to step up big time.

I am not giving up hope entirely that the defense starts playing better, eventually. After all, there was no preseason and it's a young team. But the way things are looking, we're going to be drafting pretty high again.

"cbrad wrote:

Buck stops with Flores plain and simple. As others have said this is still a rebuilding year, so I'm not too upset yet. But there are absolutely no excuses come next year. If we aren't in the playoffs next year, then I think we need to look for a new HC.

And before someone says playoffs is too demanding after 3 years, first of all note that with the expanded playoff system you only need to be one of the top 14 out of 32 teams = top 43.75%. That's barely above average! And secondly, most HC's that ended up successful over long careers, as well as most HoF coaches, actually showed by year 3 the ability to produce a consistent winner (understanding there are some notable exceptions like Landry and Belichick).

I view HC's like QB's. Keep trying until you find the right one. Flores is in year 2 of a 3 year trial period (hopefully Ross sticks with that). But this isn't year 3 yet, it's year 2. So give him a little more time.

If we follow similar trajectory as last year, we will likely start seeing some significant improvements every few games. We went from being the worst team of all time in weeks 1-2 to a 5 win team by the end of the year.

This year we have more talent, but a HARD schedule (thanks to the NFC/AFC West matchups). Tua is a wild card.

This is laid at the feet of a one Chris Grier... dude has been an albatross around the neck of this organization for over 20 years.

Flores aka mumbles also doesn't inspire much confidence.... it's clear he was another in a long line of coat tail riders in NE.

Last season with a roster of nobodies...players traded left and right for draft picks, the Dolphins started 0-7. No one had a problem with that because “you” were jumping up and down for joy. “Tank for Tua...Tank for Tua” was the cry for joy.

Then the Dolphins, with this same roster of nobodies went 5-4 the final 9 games of the season...and you were upset. “We’re gonna lose Tua”. “Flores needs to be fired”. The madness was nonstop.

Enter 2020...

The NFL had no preseason
Using all of those draft picks, the roster is turned over yet again.
This is the youngest team in the NFL.

This is the 2nd game of the season with brand new young raw talent and what are we hearing? Yep, Flores needs to be fired.

Everyone needs to take a breath. Last season doesn’t count. The Dolphins gutted their roster and last year’s team wasn’t the Dolphins, they were the Minnows.

You need to realistically look at THIS season as Flores rookie season with a rookie team. This team is going to need time to grow. They are young and our team has had so many problems for so many years, you can’t expect to simply run the lamp and say “Genie, I wish the Dolphins win every game this season”. It doesn’t work that way.

What everyone needs to look for is steady improvement at every position week after week. It’s highly unlikely but I would be ecstatic if we were 0-10 then finished 6-0 and did so decisively.

I think that would cause a lot of pause for every team we played next year. Fingers crossed

The Dolphins have the worst defense in the league in EPA per play allowed so far this year:

[ATTACH:full]

Great post Dark Knight!

Let’s also not forget that last year we had the worst defense in the NFL. This defense is young and a lot of new starters. Let’s see where they are 8-12 games into the season and whether we’ve seen progress from last year.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

Last season with a roster of nobodies...players traded left and right for draft picks, the Dolphins started 0-7. No one had a problem with that because “you” were jumping up and down for joy. “Tank for Tua...Tank for Tua” was the cry for joy.

Then the Dolphins, with this same roster of nobodies went 5-4 the final 9 games of the season...and you were upset. “We’re gonna lose Tua”. “Flores needs to be fired”. The madness was nonstop.

Enter 2020...

The NFL had no preseason
Using all of those draft picks, the roster is turned over yet again.
This is the youngest team in the NFL.

This is the 2nd game of the season with brand new young raw talent and what are we hearing? Yep, Flores needs to be fired.

Everyone needs to take a breath. Last season doesn’t count. The Dolphins gutted their roster and last year’s team wasn’t the Dolphins, they were the Minnows.

You need to realistically look at THIS season as Flores rookie season with a rookie team. This team is going to need time to grow. They are young and our team has had so many problems for so many years, you can’t expect to simply run the lamp and say “Genie, I wish the Dolphins win every game this season”. It doesn’t work that way.

What everyone needs to look for is steady improvement at every position week after week. It’s highly unlikely but I would be ecstatic if we were 0-10 then finished 6-0 and did so decisively.

I think that would cause a lot of pause for every team we played next year. Fingers crossed

Great take on this! I agree 100%.

Everyone needs to get off the cliff and calm down. I don't think anyone coming into the 1st week really believed we were going to win either of those games and yet there we are at the end of the game yesterday in striking distance. And the offense did it against a pretty darn good defense.

Which brings us back to the original topic of the thread, the Lack of defense. I am not sure who exactly is to blame and frankly I don't care. I do want to know what they are going to do to fix it. Iggy got torched yesterday all game long but he is a rookie drawing a really tough assignment after Jones went down with a groin injury (do these guys stretch properly before they play?). Loosing Jones hurt us more than anything else in this game but the point was made earlier about how we shouldn't fall apart because of only one guy. I agree but after watching that yesterday X does NOT look healthy at the moment or at least is not in great shape like he would normally be. It takes a minute to get back from a knee injury and he didn't get activated until less than 2 weeks before the season start. He just isn't in game shape yet.

That said, I believed the secondary would be the strength of the team this year and they've been pretty terrible through the 1st 2 games so far. I also see guys over-pursuing and getting out of position allowing cut back lanes all over the field. The tackling has been awful. Those things smack of undisciplined play. IT's so poor at the moment I can't make out what the defensive game plan is when they are on the field. These guys need to maintain their gap responsiblity and assignments. Until they get the basics right they won't improve and that seems to me to be where the coaches need to focus going forward.

I think I'd argue the pass rush and also discipline.

There's time for things to improve, obviously, but it looks like the guys brought in to do the job...can't. If that remains true, then time for someone else.

Discipline - I hate, hate, hate, to see missed or late tackles when you've got defenders standing there and somehow a guy makes it past them. It's one thing if a guy is in the open and you have to catch up, but if you have him right in front of you, then brings the fella down.

In the NFL your secondary is only as good as your pass rush, you might be able to get away with not effectively pressuring the QB in high school and college, but at this level a top QB with time will shred your defense into pieces.

The biggest problem, as I see it was no preseason games. Granted, every team had the same handicap this season but not every team had this big of a turnover in personnel either.

Everyone just needs to accept the first 4 games of the season are our preseason games. Mistakes are going to be made. Injuries are going to happen. All last season we ALL discussed this...we all basically forecasted this season. We all knew this was coming. We weren’t able to forecast the coronavirus and the effect it would have on the season but we all knew this was going to be a tough year.

Wins and losses should not be the focus this season. Collective improvement should be.

Remember, we’re playing the long game here...building a team that’s going to be perennial winners, not a brilliant flash of 1 great year only to return to perennial mediocrity

I think the other big thing is outside of Jones who hopefully isn’t gone long, we are relatively healthy. You’re seeing a lot of big injuries across the NFL right now.

Regarding the defense being bad, it's really looking like the primary effect of COVID-19 is that defenses are bad everywhere, and I suspect the primary reason is no crowd noise, which not only removes a major source of home field advantage (psychologically) but also allows for better communication on offense. This has led to more scoring, yards, and also fewer INT's and penalties overall. So it's not just us where the defense looks worse than expected.

These stats were similar in weeks 1 and 2, so let me just post combined stats for weeks 1-2:

Points per game: 25.0 (about 2 points higher than ever before)
Yards per game: 371.0 (about 20 yards higher than ever before)
1st downs per game: 22.9 (about 2.5 higher than ever before)
INT's per game: 0.7 (0.1 lower than ever before)
Passing TD's per game: 1.7 (tied with highest ever)
Rushing TD's per game: 1.1 (0.2 higher than ever before)
Penalties per game: 5.9 (not an NFL record, but about 0.8 lower than in previous 8 years)
Drives that end in scores: 39.5% (about 3 higher than ever before)
Passer rating: 95.8 (almost 4 points higher than ever before)

etc.

Couple this with play on the field actually looking like normal NFL games (including last week) and I do not subscribe to this idea that missing pre-season games is having a major effect. It actually looks like there's no effect.

I think the primary effect is lack of crowd noise, and if that's the case we're going to KEEP seeing this effect, on average, throughout the rest of the year. "On average" of course. Doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't improve, but maybe one should set the expectations a tad lower than in previous years. Lack of crowd noise may be producing an effect as big as the biggest rule changes in NFL history (e.g., in 1978 for the passing game).

It was my understanding that home teams were permitted to add canned crowd noise in the stadiums but, that there was a decibel limit to the volume. I imagine the crowd noise that we hear over the TV is added electronically to the broadcast signal. It's a strange year.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

Last season with a roster of nobodies...

I agree with everything you said...but it was a roster of nobodies BY GRIER'S CHOICE. My only point is that he has to deliver on that choice and show improvement this season to be on track for that "perennial playoff contender" next year.

"KeyFin wrote:

I agree with everything you said...but it was a roster of nobodies BY GRIER'S CHOICE. My only point is that he has to deliver on that choice and show improvement this season to be on track for that "perennial playoff contender" next year.

I think we're still on track, I do think we need to consider that we went up against two very good football teams so far, the Pats were just 1.5 yards away from beating the Seahawks in Seattle last night, and one thing I think a lot of folks are overlooking is how much of a change did the Bills have to go through coming into this season, they were a playoff team last year and I'm sure they made some changes and upgrades, so coming into this season they just really had to pick up where they left off.

"KeyFin wrote:

I agree with everything you said...but it was a roster of nobodies BY GRIER'S CHOICE. My only point is that he has to deliver on that choice and show improvement this season to be on track for that "perennial playoff contender" next year.

I understand what you're saying Key. Grier CHOSE to gut the roster last season, to accumulate draft picks and build the team from scratch. I get it, but look at it from this angle...

If Grier had all of the personnel he and Flores wanted last season during Flores' rookie season, you would still expect there to be that learning curve with a new head coach and the Dolphins would play poorly that first season. His second season, you would expect the team to play much better since they had a full season under their belt with the Flores philosophy.

Well, that's not the case with the Dolphins. They gutted the roster and fielded "a" team. They were the Miami Dolphins only insomuch they were a group of 53 people wearing the uniforms of the Miami Dolphins. In essence, they were all replacement players. This is the first season Flores has with the team HE and GRIER wanted. That learning curve I spoke of is to be expected this season. If we win 6 games this season, I'm going to be surprised, particularly with what happened with the coronavirus.

Next season I expect the Dolphins to go 10-6 with a wildcard appearance and realistically compete for a DEEP playoff run perennially starting in 2022.

Remember, this team is being put together for a decade(s) long dynasty, not the short/near term as it has been for the last 20 years.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

I understand what you're saying Key. Grier CHOSE to gut the roster last season, to accumulate draft picks and build the team from scratch. I get it, but look at it from this angle...

If Grier had all of the personnel he and Flores wanted last season during Flores' rookie season, you would still expect there to be that learning curve with a new head coach and the Dolphins would play poorly that first season. His second season, you would expect the team to play much better since they had a full season under their belt with the Flores philosophy.

Well, that's not the case with the Dolphins. They gutted the roster and fielded "a" team. They were the Miami Dolphins only insomuch they were a group of 53 people wearing the uniforms of the Miami Dolphins. In essence, they were all replacement players. This is the first season Flores has with the team HE and GRIER wanted. That learning curve I spoke of is to be expected this season. If we win 6 games this season, I'm going to be surprised, particularly with what happened with the coronavirus.

Next season I expect the Dolphins to go 10-6 with a wildcard appearance and realistically compete for a DEEP playoff run perennially starting in 2022.

Remember, this team is being put together for a decade(s) long dynasty, not the short/near term as it has been for the last 20 years.

Sure, I completely get that and I hope you're right. My problem is that this entire process hinges on Chris Greer being the best GM we've had in decades. If he's an average GM then we're screwed, because that means we drafted/traded for some busts and we're still far behind schedule. I've hated this process because we're betting everything on a 20+ year Fins employee who is claiming that he's had the secret sauce all this time...it's just an extreme gamble and a huge leap of faith.

I realize that this team will need a few months to really gel together, meaning that 6-8 wins is probably the absolute best we can expect this season. And I'm fine with that- I'm personally expecting around 5 wins total. But at the same time, the clock is still ticking and fans have short memories. A year from now, I'm not going to be saying, "Well, it's only year 3 and year one doesn't count..." And here's why....

If it wasn't for Grier, we would have kept Gase and he would have kept Tannehill. We don't need to have this debate all over again, but we now see Tannehill's true potential and Gase believed in him 100%. If we would have upgraded a few linemen last year in the draft with RT under center, what would our record have been? Would we have made the playoffs last year? Where would we be after two games this season...could we have been the dominant force in the AFC E under Gase/RT? It's only fair to look at both sides of the coin...what we threw away vs what we gained.

Again, I hope that you're 100% correct in us being right on schedule in building a perennial playoff contender. I like many of the moves Grier has made in the draft and I realize that several of our picks are long-term projects. But that doesn't give Grier a lifetime free pass on shipping out Tunsil, Minkah, our entire pass rush, etc. and then delivering a vastly inferior product in their places. I will continue to call him on that stuff because that's what fans are supposed to do. That doesn't mean that I'm not rooting for you to be right...but I strongly believed that we were a few less OL injuries away from being a playoff team in 2017 & 2018.

Until I can believe that once again, I'll be critical of Grier and his 5-year plan for dominating the post-season. I like Flores as well and this has nothing at all to do with him....he's a good coach that's doing the best with what he has. We simply need to see some results later this season to justify many of those moves last year.

"KeyFin wrote:

Sure, I completely get that and I hope you're right. My problem is that this entire process hinges on Chris Greer being the best GM we've had in decades. If he's an average GM then we're screwed, because that means we drafted/traded for some busts and we're still far behind schedule. I've hated this process because we're betting everything on a 20+ year Fins employee who is claiming that he's had the secret sauce all this time...it's just an extreme gamble and a huge leap of faith.

I realize that this team will need a few months to really gel together, meaning that 6-8 wins is probably the absolute best we can expect this season. And I'm fine with that- I'm personally expecting around 5 wins total. But at the same time, the clock is still ticking and fans have short memories. A year from now, I'm not going to be saying, "Well, it's only year 3 and year one doesn't count..." And here's why....

If it wasn't for Grier, we would have kept Gase and he would have kept Tannehill. We don't need to have this debate all over again, but we now see Tannehill's true potential and Gase believed in him 100%. If we would have upgraded a few linemen last year in the draft with RT under center, what would our record have been? Would we have made the playoffs last year? Where would we be after two games this season...could we have been the dominant force in the AFC E under Gase/RT? It's only fair to look at both sides of the coin...what we threw away vs what we gained.

Again, I hope that you're 100% correct in us being right on schedule in building a perennial playoff contender. I like many of the moves Grier has made in the draft and I realize that several of our picks are long-term projects. But that doesn't give Grier a lifetime free pass on shipping out Tunsil, Minkah, our entire pass rush, etc. and then delivering a vastly inferior product in their places. I will continue to call him on that stuff because that's what fans are supposed to do. That doesn't mean that I'm not rooting for you to be right...but I strongly believed that we were a few less OL injuries away from being a playoff team in 2017 & 2018.

Until I can believe that once again, I'll be critical of Grier and his 5-year plan for dominating the post-season. I like Flores as well and this has nothing at all to do with him....he's a good coach that's doing the best with what he has. We simply need to see some results later this season to justify many of those moves last year.

Yea it is tough being a Dolphins fan, isn't it? We've had so many "this year is it!" only to have our hearts crushed. I was frequently excited when we would sign this lineman or that lineman and confident that with that veteran signing, we were finally going to fil that hole and the line would be squared away...only to have said limen injured and having the jury rig an OL for each game.

We all know my feelings on Tannehill...always felt that way so like you said, no sense in re-hashing that. As for Gase, he fooled me our first season when we went 10-6 and to the playoffs but he isn't head coach material. If he was indeed that great, Sam Darnold would be flourishing and the Jets would be the talk of the AFC East. He's going to ruin Darnold. As for Minkah Fitzpatrick, I was estatic when we drafted him. The kid was incredible in Alabama and I was excited to have him on our roster but...when he started complaining and openly calling out the coaching staff, talent versus discontent...he had to go. Can't have a house divided and if the team isn't 100% united behind their head coach, they're never going to win.

The Achilles Heel of our team for years, the offensive line has actually been a bit of a pleasant surprise. Fitzpatrick hasn't been running for his life. He's actually had some decent protection so for the passing game, that is a bright spot. Hopefully they'll continue to improve, particular in rush blocking...getting holes opened for the running backs to hit. If that unit continues to improve, everything else is going to fall into place offensively. Everything I know of football tells me that.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

Last season with a roster of nobodies...players traded left and right for draft picks, the Dolphins started 0-7. No one had a problem with that because “you” were jumping up and down for joy. “Tank for Tua...Tank for Tua” was the cry for joy.

Then the Dolphins, with this same roster of nobodies went 5-4 the final 9 games of the season...and you were upset. “We’re gonna lose Tua”. “Flores needs to be fired”. The madness was nonstop.

Enter 2020...

The NFL had no preseason
Using all of those draft picks, the roster is turned over yet again.
This is the youngest team in the NFL.

This is the 2nd game of the season with brand new young raw talent and what are we hearing? Yep, Flores needs to be fired.

Everyone needs to take a breath. Last season doesn’t count. The Dolphins gutted their roster and last year’s team wasn’t the Dolphins, they were the Minnows.

You need to realistically look at THIS season as Flores rookie season with a rookie team. This team is going to need time to grow. They are young and our team has had so many problems for so many years, you can’t expect to simply run the lamp and say “Genie, I wish the Dolphins win every game this season”. It doesn’t work that way.

What everyone needs to look for is steady improvement at every position week after week. It’s highly unlikely but I would be ecstatic if we were 0-10 then finished 6-0 and did so decisively.

I think that would cause a lot of pause for every team we played next year. Fingers crossed

Agree with a lot of this, but that's also my concern. Is there a plan? I ask because I'm legit concerned. We had an improving Defense and we let the coordinator go. Turned over a good chunk of that roster. Then we brought a retired OC back as the Offensive Coordinator because he was familiar with Fitz. Fitz isnt the future why not bring in an OC who excels with todays modern quaterbacks? I feel Chan is going to try and put TUA into a classic QB system and that will probably not work out well instead of building a new young innovative and exciting offense around TUA's skillsets. So that means we probably get another coordinator at some point and start the progression over again.

I'm worried that Flores and Grier don't have a rock solid 5 year plan, but instead of playing to stay competitive and keep their jobs.

I like Flores but don't like either Coordinators at this point. Never liked Chan's systems they never worked out. So why would it magically work here with less talent?

Flores gets 2 more years from me and needs a deep playoff push in those 2 years to keep his JOB. Way to many other teams turn things around quickly.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

Yea it is tough being a Dolphins fan, isn't it? We've had so many "this year is it!" only to have our hearts crushed. I was frequently excited when we would sign this lineman or that lineman and confident that with that veteran signing, we were finally going to fil that hole and the line would be squared away...only to have said limen injured and having the jury rig an OL for each game.

We all know my feelings on Tannehill...always felt that way so like you said, no sense in re-hashing that. As for Gase, he fooled me our first season when we went 10-6 and to the playoffs but he isn't head coach material. If he was indeed that great, Sam Darnold would be flourishing and the Jets would be the talk of the AFC East. He's going to ruin Darnold. As for Minkah Fitzpatrick, I was estatic when we drafted him. The kid was incredible in Alabama and I was excited to have him on our roster but...when he started complaining and openly calling out the coaching staff, talent versus discontent...he had to go. Can't have a house divided and if the team isn't 100% united behind their head coach, they're never going to win.

The Achilles Heel of our team for years, the offensive line has actually been a bit of a pleasant surprise. Fitzpatrick hasn't been running for his life. He's actually had some decent protection so for the passing game, that is a bright spot. Hopefully they'll continue to improve, particular in rush blocking...getting holes opened for the running backs to hit. If that unit continues to improve, everything else is going to fall into place offensively. Everything I know of football tells me that.

Personally, I kind of applaud Minkah. Several players said that if we traded Tunsil, they'd want out since it signals that the team wasn't trying to win. You have to realize that player careers are very short...most don't make it past a few years in the league and they have to prove themselves today. We know Minkah is a 10+ year player but even so, do you throw away 2-3 years in a rebuild hoping that it all works out? That's a lot for a team to ask of a young superstar who's trending in the right direction. As I said, at least he stuck to his guns and did what he said he'd do.

What you said about Gase sort of echoes my feelings about Grier. In 2017, we had the hurricane and our "home field" ended up being in California...that team went through way more adversity than our 2019 squad since we had to find a QB just 2 weeks before the season started (Jay freakin' Cutler...). Coming off a playoff appearance in year 1 and losing your starting QB, how did we get to "Gase can't coach" over the next two seasons? It's all in the perspective of our viewpoints and not necessarily reality....Gase delivering two below .500 seasons with a mincemeat line meant he had to go, but we're thrilled with Flores winning 5 games. Who brought in Gase's linemen though who quickly ended up on the IR? That would be Grier.

But for whatever reason we tend to give Grier praise for the good stuff, blame the ex head coach for the bad stuff and ignore the rest because we want to be hopeful.

The OL this season has been decent....not great but certainly not the mess we started last year with either. The good news is that we did do this part right by drafting young and letting them build into the roles...it takes some growing pains but it's the only way to build a long-term solid group of players. My only hope is that we draft a few more linemen next season to build out the reserves- that's been the "cardinal sin" with this team for decades now since it's not just about the starting five. Realistically you need 7 or 8 quality starters to make it thru the season.

As I said, I'm hopeful Grier is the guy everyone thinks he is...but he'd have to be WAY BETTER than the average GM for this to work out favorably within 3-5 seasons. We did get our QB of the future and that's a huge piece, but I don't know that we can make it solely on young players across all 22 positions. We'd have to go very heavy D-line and edge early in the next draft....which means that we'd better be set at WR, OL, LB and secondary. And that's to be competitive in year 3...which is around the time we fired Sparano, Gase, Philbin and countless GM's (AKA, our last decade + of football leadership).

My biggest fear isn't that we suck this season/next season...it's that we eventually fire Grier/Flores and start this process all over again. I'm so fed up with rebuilding mode because unless you really see that vision through, then you're never actually building anything of substance and you're completely wasting the talent that you do have on the roster today.

"Dorfdad wrote:

Agree with a lot of this, but that's also my concern. Is there a plan? I ask because I'm legit concerned. We had an improving Defense and we let the coordinator go. Turned over a good chunk of that roster. Then we brought a retired OC back as the Offensive Coordinator because he was familiar with Fitz. Fitz isnt the future why not bring in an OC who excels with todays modern quaterbacks? I feel Chan is going to try and put TUA into a classic QB system and that will probably not work out well instead of building a new young innovative and exciting offense around TUA's skillsets. So that means we probably get another coordinator at some point and start the progression over again.

I'm worried that Flores and Grier don't have a rock solid 5 year plan, but instead of playing to stay competitive and keep their jobs.

I like Flores but don't like either Coordinators at this point. Never liked Chan's systems they never worked out. So why would it magically work here with less talent?

Flores gets 2 more years from me and needs a deep playoff push in those 2 years to keep his JOB. Way to many other teams turn things around quickly.

I think Chan Gailey the offensive coordinator gets lumped in too many times with Chain Gailey the head coach. As an HC, he was terrible. It was just too much for him to handle but Chan Gailey the OC?

1989 Denver Broncos; 11-5
1990 Denver Broncos; 5-11 (damned Raiders and Chiefs lol)
1996 Pittsburgh Steelers; 10-6
1997 Pittsburgh Steelers; 11-5
2000 Miami Dolphins; 11-5
2001 Miami Dolphins; 11-5
2008 Kansas City Chiefs; 2-14
2015 New York Jets; 10-5
2016 New York Jets; 5-11

Out of 9 seasons as an OC, he had 6 successful seasons working with Dan Reeves, Bill Cowher, Dave Wannstedt and Todd Bowles. At quarterback for each of these teams he had John Elway, Kordell Stewart, Jay Fiedler and Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Gailey's offense gets criticized often as being "too simple" and while there may be some validity to that, he has had success with it but more importantly, as Fitzpatrick is a bridge to Tua, Gailey and his offense is more than likely also going to be that bridge for this young team as well. Could be wrong, but I just think that has to be part of the plan.