My impression: How Jeff Ireland makes decisions

We moved back for Sean Smith, not up.

Lamar Miller and Daniel Thomas are two times we moved up (not sure of more off the top of my head).

complaining about missing on some other guys from the CFL....really ?

lol.

- He's been here 5 years and has never paid big for a FA except 4 times.
- He's been here 5 years and has never moved up in the draft except 2 times.

The only area I don't fault him on is the CFL and undrafted FAs. I think he's actually damn good in that area. The rest is the ability to draft decent players throughout but no great players. That's his downfall IMO. You have to get game changers and he doesn't get enough

"Stitches wrote:

We moved back for Sean Smith, not up.

Lamar Miller and Daniel Thomas are two times we moved up (not sure of more off the top of my head).

Something like this, was not going to flip through 5 yrs of Wiki Draft pages to find a trade up.

INOW, not very often.

"Finascious D wrote:

lol.

- He's been here 5 years and has never paid big for a FA except 4 times.
- He's been here 5 years and has never moved up in the draft except 2 times.

In 5 yrs here?

And we've had a losing record 4 of them?

Indeed..lol

"padre31 wrote:

In 5 yrs here?

And we've had a losing record 4 of them?

Indeed..lol

Don't change the argument.

"adamprez2003 wrote:

The only area I don't fault him on is the CFL and undrafted FAs. I think he's actually damn good in that area. The rest is the ability to draft decent players throughout but no great players. That's his downfall IMO. You have to get game changers and he doesn't get enough

If that is your area of specialization, then one must excel at it.

I also think he simply thinks what happens in college is what will happen in the pros, if he does not see it on film, he won't draft them..period.

In 09, the only time he has ever spoken directly why he drafted some players, he mentioned "the way Turner can drop his hips"

Suspect the failure of that draft class has made him very conservative.

"Finascious D wrote:

Don't change the argument.

*Gosh* FinD, think there has been a good job of talent acquisition done in those 5 yrs?

Even the Jest have outperformed us over that time span, W-l's and playoff wins.

"Finascious D wrote:

lol.

- He's been here 5 years and has never paid big for a FA except 4 times.
- He's been here 5 years and has never moved up in the draft except 2 times.

Relax Pad's...there are only like 3 people on here you need to convince Ireland has been mediocre, and those 3 cling to him like love struck blonde groupies.

What you can say is that he is risk averse. He will not take a risk on a player unless his back is against the wall. Bill Parcells pounded that philosophy into his head, and up until this past year when he drafted Tannehill, he has avoided taking a risk.

Jeff tends to like players who fit the prototype for the position, have been starters for 2-3 years at the college level, and have been productive.

The above is the reason he trades down in the 2010 draft to take Jared Odrick -- Big Ten DPOY -- over the unknown of Jason Pierre-Paul or the uncertainty of Dez Bryant.

His problem is that it is in the 2nd-3rd round area where he tends to take his risks, and ultimately has the most misses.

"KB21 wrote:

What you can say is that he is risk averse. He will not take a risk on a player unless his back is against the wall. Bill Parcells pounded that philosophy into his head, and up until this past year when he drafted Tannehill, he has avoided taking a risk.

Jeff tends to like players who fit the prototype for the position, have been starters for 2-3 years at the college level, and have been productive.

The above is the reason he trades down in the 2010 draft to take Jared Odrick -- Big Ten DPOY -- over the unknown of Jason Pierre-Paul or the uncertainty of Dez Bryant.

His problem is that it is in the 2nd-3rd round area where he tends to take his risks, and ultimately has the most misses.

Yes bc his trades have really shown that :confused:

"KB21 wrote:

What you can say is that he is risk averse. He will not take a risk on a player unless his back is against the wall. Bill Parcells pounded that philosophy into his head, and up until this past year when he drafted Tannehill, he has avoided taking a risk.

Jeff tends to like players who fit the prototype for the position, have been starters for 2-3 years at the college level, and have been productive.

The above is the reason he trades down in the 2010 draft to take Jared Odrick -- Big Ten DPOY -- over the unknown of Jason Pierre-Paul or the uncertainty of Dez Bryant.

His problem is that it is in the 2nd-3rd round area where he tends to take his risks, and ultimately has the most misses.

This seems accurate - and why he's done a good job of finding the Hartline, Langford, Odrick, Misi type guys - but we have very few gamebreakers. Our biggest issue was getting in the endzone and creating turnovers. Seems like a fairly balanced and solid roster with a bunch of guys who don't lose games - but with very few guys that go out and win games.

"Fin-Omenal wrote:

Relax Pad's...there are only like 3 people on here you need to convince Ireland has been mediocre, and those 3 cling to him like love struck blonde groupies.

Oh, I don't mind Ireland per se, he simply needs to stop check betting and folding when it comes to talent.

Sometimes, you have to hit that big pot and that means risk, he basically takes the easy wins (CFLers and unappreciated FA's) and refuses to push in on riskier, but more lucrative, talent.

I can semi see it from here, Draft 2013, he will take someone the Scouts love but adds no explosiveness to the team, for example one of those Left Tackles b/c "we lost Jake Long in free agency"

Quintessential Ireland move to a "T".

"PhiNomina wrote:

This seems accurate - and why he's done a good job of finding the Hartline, Langford, Odrick, Misi type guys - but we have very few gamebreakers. Our biggest issue was getting in the endzone and creating turnovers. Seems like a fairly balanced and solid roster with a bunch of guys who don't lose games - but with very few guys that go out and win games.

Funny thing is PNomina, our Db's play the ball in the air like Ireland acquires talent, sure they can see it, they just cannot do anything with it..:lol:

To a point, I suspect this is one of our issues, to create turnovers, you have to gamble, Ireland does not gamble, thus he does not take chances on players who do gamble as they do not fit what he wants to see.

"Sure he made the play but look at his positioning, if he missed the guy would have scored"

Ireland to a "T".

"padre31 wrote:

*Gosh* FinD, think there has been a good job of talent acquisition done in those 5 yrs?

Even the Jest have outperformed us over that time span, W-l's and playoff wins.

Gosh Padre, you said:

-He does not pay above market 95% of the time, there have been 4 above market FA deals:

-Dansby
-Grove
-Smiley
-Wake (record signing bonus, imo that is the Scout in him)

-He GENERALLY does not move up in the draft, I can think of 2 occasions in 5 yrs:

-Sean Smith
-Daniel Thomas

That part is what my response was to. If you want to say they are horrible players or whatever fine. But YOU brought up these specific points and they are silly.

If you wanted to talk about talent then fine, but YOU didn't frame the argument that way.

"Fin-Omenal wrote:

Relax Pad's...there are only like 3 people on here you need to convince Ireland has been mediocre, and those 3 cling to him like love struck blonde groupies.

That's retarded.

I have stated more than once, that if we don't go to thew playoffs this coming year, Ireland must go. Your problem is that you can't compartmentalize.

"KB21 wrote:

What you can say is that he is risk averse. He will not take a risk on a player unless his back is against the wall. Bill Parcells pounded that philosophy into his head, and up until this past year when he drafted Tannehill, he has avoided taking a risk.

Jeff tends to like players who fit the prototype for the position, have been starters for 2-3 years at the college level, and have been productive.

The above is the reason he trades down in the 2010 draft to take Jared Odrick -- Big Ten DPOY -- over the unknown of Jason Pierre-Paul or the uncertainty of Dez Bryant.

His problem is that it is in the 2nd-3rd round area where he tends to take his risks, and ultimately has the most misses.

I don't even think the Tannehill pick falls into the taking a risk category. Yes, as a player Tannehill is/was a risk. But both Ross and Ireland were on record at the beginning of the 2012 offseason saying improving the QB situation was the top priority and they were going to be aggressive.

Once Manning passed on Miami and Flynn chose Seattle's offer I don't think Ireland had any alternative but to draft highest valued QB at #8. Hard to imagine the uproar of already irate fans if the Dolphins didn't leave the draft with the highest valued QB Miami had a chance to take when on the clock.

FinD he is 2 for 4, and Wake's "above market deal" was 1 million in a signing bonus.

Ireland's most alarming weakness is his inability to find playmakers. Now that may not mean he can't find them, but his draft moves and especially his free agent moves this side of Marshall have simply not panned out in that area. He traded for Fasano and Bush and they have performed reasonably well. But other than Hartline and Bess, he has failed miserably at wr and, really at tight end as well. I like the move for Miller. Maybe that is the beginning of some change for him. Because if he doesn't change soon, this team will continue its ways. There are simply no excuses for him in the way he handled the receiver situation last year.
I don't want to stand before the media after draft day this year and explain things if he doesn't at least draft one wr high. And someone very different than Clyde Gates.

"padre31 wrote:

FinD he is 2 for 4, and Wake's "above market deal" was 1 million in a signing bonus.

Again, you're changing your argument.

You brought up that he didn't do these things, then turned and illustrated he did in fcat do them. If you want to talk about the success of them, fine. But your original argument wasn't about success.

"padre31 wrote:

We've all watched Ireland operate for 5 yrs now, yes, 5 yrs, as I refuse to simply blot out 3 yrs of his tenure.

My impressions of how he makes decisions:

-He thinks like a Scout, first and foremost, I can never forget his text on draft day 09:

"We got Hartline!"

Of course in the 4th rd, after taking Pat Turner

-He does not pay above market 95% of the time, there have been 4 above market FA deals:

-Dansby
-Grove
-Smiley
-Wake (record signing bonus, imo that is the Scout in him)

-He GENERALLY does not move up in the draft, I can think of 2 occasions in 5 yrs:

-Sean Smith
-Daniel Thomas

That is the Scout in him, and notice they both were from the midwest, it is possible he has moved up in the later rds, his MO is usually stand pat, or move back and trust the Scouts.

-Lowballs our in place talent, literally, it was pulling teeth to get Cam Wake signed to an extension and even then it was not on par with Wake's level of performance up until now, literally it is give us a hometown discount or walk.

Notice he rushed to sign DBess to a deal, but did not bother with Hartline until the season began, and if reports are to be believed, wants Bush back but cheaply.

-Clings to finding CFL guys, I don't mind that of course, but lacks a consistent vision for this aspect, Wake and Thigpen were great pickups, why did we pass on Joey Browner and Jerrell Freeman? I suspect it has to do with his "vision for a player", we had SS24 and VD, we had Burnett/Dansby/Misi and Trusnik, what would we need Freeman for?

-Which brings me to my last impression of Jeff Ireland..-0-...none..nada..instincts when it comes to projecting players growth in the NFL, what he sees on college film is literally his ceiling for a player, if they have an injury history sorry, he won't draft you with a high draft pick and rarely takes a shot on a player late in the draft if they have a significant injury history in college...he doesn't trust them.

I'd almost bet Ireland is surprised at Daniel Thomas's injury issues after leading the conference in carries.

I'm neutral leaning positive towards Ireland, but suspect we all should prepare for a rebuild as he will only sign guys on the cheap, after the rest of the NFL has passed on them at their asking price which should be a red flag about the player...but...

I don't agree with everything said, but I agree with the premise that Ireland is risk adverse. However, I would definitely disagree that Wake's extension getting done was like "pullin teeth". We signed him well before training camp before his last season.

"Finascious D wrote:

Again, you're changing your argument.

You brought up that he didn't do these things, then turned and illustrated he did in fcat do them. If you want to talk about the success of them, fine. But your original argument wasn't about success.

Ah, here is the misunderstanding.

It is not that he had 4 of them, it is that he did not make enough deals over his tenure.

One perhaps feels 4 is a large number, objectively it is rather small if one wants to be competitive.