My opinion pre-draft was to move up for Burrow at #1 overall...I insisted he was the best college QB I had seen in decades due to his poise in the pocket. If that couldn't happen, then my 2nd move was to take Jalen Hurts in the 2nd/3rd round. I did not want Tua due to injury concerns, so I was literally 3 for 3 on my opinions back then.

However, having said that, I do not regret drafting Tua because that's what actually happened in real life. We can't play the "what if" game over stuff like this because there's always a better option. What if I bought bitcoin back in 2014 when a nerdy friend told me all about how he was mining it? I'd be a billionaire and probably not on a Dolphins forum, LOL.

For pure QB talent, I'd take Tua over Herbert. His accuracy is completely insane. And yes, Tua's been hurt...but so has every other QB on our roster the past three years. Every single QB we have had. That's why we can't play "what if"....what if Tua went to Philly or Dallas where they actually build stud offensive lines? Maybe Tua never gets hurt, maybe he breaks the single season passing record this year.

Another what if to consider- what if we didn't bring in Tyreek, and invested in the top two free agent linemen instead? What if we used our last few 1st rounders to bring in stud offensive linemen? How would that have affected Tua...or any QB who started for us? It's not fair to look at this in a vacuum and say "Tua stinks because he's always hurt". He led the league in passer rating by a decent margin for over half the year; the kid was not a bad pick at all.

 

As of right now the better choice was Herbert. However, there are two qualifiers to this statement:

1. Herbert hasn't yet played like an elite QB either, so it's questionable whether he would be the right QB per se even if he would be the better choice compared to Tua.

2. It's not yet clear what Tua's career will look like. If he retires after this season or keeps having availability issues then no question Herbert was the better choice. But if he keeps playing and does well in future seasons then we'll have to revisit.

But yes, right now it looks like Herbert would have been the better choice, pending future data.

 

I don't need any more data. Herbert would have been the better choice. Either going by the numbers, or just by watching them play, it's plainly obvoius Herbert is the better overall QB.

Tua is an injury prone system QB who depends way too much on playing with an all star suporting cast within a very specific scheme in order to be successfull. His only elite traits are accuracy and anticipation inside the numbers and within 30 yards of the line of scrimmage, which is what Mcdaniel built this offense around. You take that away and he turns into a mediocre QB which is what defenses figured out towards the end of the season.

Herbert on the other hand is a stud and elite at pretty much everything, and he can be depended upon to overcome adversity and play a whole season.

 

Herbert's production isn't elite, nowhere close. This year he ended #12 in passer rating and hasn't shown improvement statistically, which btw is a good predictor of who ends up being great. There's literally no historically great QB without great stats once adjusted for era. So he's going to have to demonstrate elite production at some point. Most QBs plateau around year 3-4, so I guess we'll see next year.

As far as overcoming adversity, yes he's shown that, but let's see how he does in the playoffs. He's finally taken his team to the playoffs, so that's good. But as the years pass there's no excuse for Herbert not going deep in the playoffs. This year is a fantastic year to prove he can do that as the Chargers are favored against Jacksonville.

 

I hoped that we would be in play for Burrow. We led that race for the majority of the season. It was a real bummer when we lost it over some meaningless games.

I was under the impression at the time that Ross was also over the moon for Herbert. Rumor back then was that we had been scouting him for like two years so it baffled me at the time that we passed on him for Tua.

When we drafted Tua, I was worried about the injury issues. The hip was scary, it was a huge roll of the dice. Part of me wanted us to take the best offensive lineman available and then go after Hurts with the next pick. Tua was never high on my list, but once we did draft him...Being that I support this franchise, I had no choice but to root for him and hope that he succeeded. I've never been one to let a personal agenda or pride get in the way of the bigger picture.

Hindsight is 20/20 and Pumpdogs has clearly started this thread to push his "I told you so" agenda. Within the four walls of his home, it truly matters that he is right at all costs about Tua. Thing is, nobody really cares because all this is going to do is set this franchise back. It's been a rollercoaster of a year. We started out low and then got super high on Tua...Got low again, high again and then hit the lowest point we ever have with him. In conclusion...NO ...We obviously made the wrong choice, but that's not because Tua has been bad. Bad quarterbacks don't lead the NFL in rating. Bad quarterbacks don't have a top three standing in the MVP race with five weeks remaining in the season. The problem with Tua is injuries and that's his downfall. We're going to have to continue our search for a franchise quarterback. Tua showed the ability, he has the ceiling, but the injuries are never going to be resolved in my opinion. The search must go on.

 

LOL. I wanted Tua and I'm not unhappy with the pick.

 

People can define elite differently, but a somewhat objective measure is to note that the average passer rating of a QB that wins a SB in any given year is just about 1 standard deviation above the mean (i.e., z-score = 1), which in 2022 is 97.3. In terms of ranking that usually corresponds to top 6 (this year top 7). So just going by that stat KC, SF, Philly or Cinci will win the SB. Allen btw just missed out on that threshold with 96.6 but otherwise he's the closest.

Anyway, Burrow's made that "elite" category 2 out of 3 years. Pretty impressive. Clearly the best QB from the 2020 class.

 

Perfect summation and 100% accurate.

:knucks:

 

Not bothering with the Tua/Herbert thing, as it has been done to death.

I will say Tua will be the starting QB next year if he doesn't retire.

 

He’s not durable and never has been. That was my concern going into the draft. I wanted Herbert or Wirfs and was adamantly against Tua.

Regardless of his stats this year, you start out with 3-5 losses every year if he’s your starter because he can’t stay healthy.

 

As Key pointed out, you can’t play the “what if” game. It’s nonsensical, creates inner bitterness and frankly a waste of energy. I can’t tell you how many times I played the “what if” game during the 80’s and 90’s.

“What if we had drafted Thurman Thomas in 1988 instead of Eric Kimerow?”

“What if we had moved up in the ‘89 draft and taken Barry Sanders instead of Sammie Smith?”

“What if we had taken Dale Carter instead of taking Marco Coleman in the ‘92 draft?”

“What I’d we had taken Tiki Barber or Cory Dillon instead of Yatil Green in the ‘97 draft?”

“What if we had sold the proverbial farm so to speak to draft Peyton Manning in the ‘98 draft as the heir to Marino?”

Yes, I’ve played the “what if” game for years. The draft is a complete craps shoot. We could have drafted Herbert over Tagovailoa and we would STILL have Flores as or HC with Godsey and Studsville as co-OC’s. Does anyone think that would have been beneficial to Herbert’s NFL development? I say absolutely not.

 

So far with 3 pro bowlers added to this years team, McDaniel hasn’t been any better than Flores who had way less talent and experience.

While you’re right about the what if game, the problem is when your GM keeps making mistakes, it doesn’t inspire confidence in your team or the direction of your organization.

 

You sure about that?

 

I wanted Burrow; I thought then (and still do) that he was the best qb in that draft. As far as the other two, I had a lot more opportunity to watch Tua as Alabama is on tv almost every week. The PAC 10 had been down for a while and really wasn’t getting much in the way of prime time coverage so I only saw Herbert a couple of times and really wasn’t impressed with the small sample size I got to watch. With that, I was glad we drafted Tua over Herbert.

 

McDaniel made the playoffs his first year as HC. Flores never made the playoffs in 3 years.

Just saying.

As for the GM, you’ll not get any argument from me on the piss poor job our current…and past GMs have done from Grier to Spielman to Ireland…not to mention Ross and Huizenga

 

I think McD has done way more than Flores and would have had more success if Tua stayed healthy (duh) and if Teddy gave a crap. Bridgewater played much better throughout his career than he has this year and has seemingly looked for any excuse not to play. I’m pretty sure we were all happy with his signing this offseason, never expecting him to be this worthless.

You’re 100% right about the GM situation, though. I doubt he’d have lasted this long in any other organization, and that’s what Ross cannot seem to realize.

 

Armstead, Hill and Chubb have all made pro bowls

 

Flores last 2 seasons, 10-6 and 9-8. McDaniel 9-8. How is that better? We just got lucky we backed our way in this year and other teams were crappier. This team is no closer to contending.

 

That's not the part I'm disputing.

 

If Flores was the coach this year we would have been lucky to win 6 games with all the injuries we’ve had on defence.
We would have had to endure another season of a garbage offence with a line worse than what we have now, a scheme that was terrible and we’d definitively be moving on from Tua. Flores would have benched him at half time against the Ravens for sure.

 

The problem is the GM. Flores likely isn’t the answer but I know Grier definitely isn’t the answer. He’s blundered a Cowboys dynasty level trade.

 

With all the coulda woulda shouldas being discussed here I have to say something we should all consider. Players have success because they're in the right situation at the right time. The Colts got the best can't miss prospect at QB since Elway when they drafted Andrew Luck. Before long he was so banged up from playing behind a terrible offensive line that he retired. Had he gone to another team, different o line, different coaches, owner maybe he's still playing today. Same can be said about Tua, Herbert, and Burrow. Say the Lions took Tua and Miami ends up with Herbert. The three concussions never happen and Herbert gets the snot knocked out of him playing behind Miami's terrible o line the last three years. My point is you'll never know if Burrow, Herbert, Brees, or any other QB we missed would have had success here. They all went to a team that put the right pieces around them to succeed and were in the right place at the right time. Chances are they would have all been much worse off in Miami.

 

Both Burrow and Herbert have demonstrated the ability to play very well behind a terrible OL. Burrow even did that in the playoffs, behind a line worse than anything Miami has fielded going by the effect on the QB (9 sacks and he still led the team to a win!!). Both would have done well here, with Burrow probably playing elite just as he's done in Cinci.

 

The offensive line is completely irrelevant. Do you know how many more times Herbert has been hit than Tua?

This season Herbert was hit 72x compared to Tua who was only hit 25x. Herbert last 3 years was hit 203x while Tua has been hit 63x.

Alabama's fortress of a line didn't keep Tua healthy. Nothing will keep Tua healthy. He's brittle AF, and that's all there is. Stop overcomplicating it and making up excuses.

 

I wanted Herbert over Tua but I moved on the day after the draft. I tend to support whomever is under center for the team. But if it makes you happy I'll obsess over Herbert and cry myself to sleep tonight because we missed out on him and drafted Tua. And I wasn't making excuses for Tua. I was just saying that just because a player lands somewhere and has success there it doesn't mean they would have had the same results here.

 

I mostly agree, but we can also agree that these aren't Lawrence Taylor level hits that are giving Tua concussions. I really don't think other QBs are concussed on this hits.

 

Tua is done. pineapple brain is mushy and ******ed, even before the sub-monkey level Wonderlic. If you cant see it now, you are just brain dead pond scum. Smart people warned you.

 

I'm not obsessing over Herbert in the slightest, or Burrow. I know they aren't even comparable to Tua. The only one who is bringing them up is you.

I'm just explaining your point about if Herbert was here "he'd get the snot beat out of him" is entirely invalid. Herbert gets the crap beat out of him all the time. Tua doesn't because he gets rid of the ball so quickly. Tua rarely gets hit, but when he does his little body explodes.

 

Herbert probably also has 400 more dropbacks than Tua.

 

Claims that he's not pushing an agenda and then reminds everyone in a response that he was right about him all along. Yeah...That's exactly what you're doing. I'm not here to throw insults at all dude. We're on the same side. I just don't understand your unbridled desire to be right about something. You're so dug at this point and you don't even see it. I'm trying to tell you that you're the only one who cares. You're basically arguing with yourself at this point. I have no dog in this fight...I never did because it was never a fight or even a debate for me. ALL I CARE ABOUT is this football team and it doing whatever it needs to do to win games. I just want to see us win a Super Bowl before I die. That is all....I also want to see us land another franchise quarterback that we can rely on for a decade plus. The reason being is that as long as you have stability at that position, you're going to contend or at least be in a position to make the playoffs each and every year. Aaron Rodgers is a classic example of that. Green Bay had a HORRIBLE roster this year. That's a team that would have won maybe 4 games all year long with Ryan Tannehill at the helm instead of Aaron Rodgers. He had them poised to make the playoffs in the final week of the season despite all that. That to me is how valuable the quarterback position is. In regards to Tua...The facts still remain that we are a better football team with him when he's A. Healthy and B. The line gives him adequate time to throw. 8 of our 9 wins this team came with him starting at quarterback. That is a fact that you cannot argue. As I said before, I don't think it's going to work though. The injuries are NEVER going to stop. That much we agree and that much alone.

 

Paragraphs are your friend, brah.