When I really studied everything about Jarvis, I would answer yes, he was a selfish player where when things got rough, he wasn’t the guy who was going to rally the troops, neither was Suh imo..

The game after the pats game and the last game of the year was enough for Gase to feel, Jarvis was a poser of a leader..

Imo I think he is a scam of a player, meaning he’s not worth the kind of money he’s getting.

 

i think it's a bunch of excuses and a scapegoat for a **** year due to a **** qb. but I guess gase can't just come out and say that.

 

I know a lot of people defended Landry when Gase made the comments about offensive players not working hard enough last year. I get that Landry did a lot of work on developing his personal skills, but I also didn’t get the impression he studied the playbook.

Also, I will let the experts correct me if I’m wrong, he seemed to be running.a very simplistic route tree. Which gave me the impression that the coaches didn’t feel hey could trust him to run more complex routes.

All in all Landry was a double edged sword, some things he did helped us a lot and some things h did hurt us. Time will tell if the net benefit was more than the net negatives.

 

Gase has no excuses now.. I mean he's saying he has the personnel he wants. So we'll find out this year who's right.

I sure hope Gase is right and you're wrong, but right now I think you're more right than wrong.

 

I didn't see evidence of this route tree thing. what I saw was a qb with horrid placement and unwilling to stand in to make plays forcing the play callers and the route depths hands primarily. in terms of replacing landry best way to do it with so much scheme driven production level skill talent outside of dvp (who is the one legit top shelf skill talent this team has) is the fast tempo. maybe gesicki becomes that level talent but I wouldn't hold my breath on it.

the rbs provided they can catch the ball are a dime a dozen in this scheme.

 

he has his qb. tanny stays healthy things will be fine. you can't overcome crap qb play and qb play that handcuffs the play caller. tanny doesn't stay healthy someones heads gonna roll after 2018 but I bet ya it won't be gase.

 

Well let me clarify. If Gase has the personnel he wants and Landry was holding things back, then we should see an offense more potent with a healthy Tannehill in 2018 than we saw with a healthy Tannehill in 2016. That's what I meant by seeing who's right and wrong.

And right now I'm skeptical of that, though I'd love for Gase to be right on this.

 

fair enough. but I would say that the tempo of play on o would be the real difference maker. I mean to my eye part of the problem in 2017 with ajayi was team went to 8 in the box and basically said "your qb must beat us" and cutler couldn't do it and then bad habits with ajayi trying to bounce things instead of take what was given set in. a snow ball effect.

bottom line to me the qb was the biggest eye sore in 2017. so having tanny back at even a 95 qbr clip would make a massive difference from that 80 burger cutler chucked up there to take his $10 mil and walk

 

Landry is a tough player in the sense he likes to win the collision battles on the field, to show that somewhat alpha personality, but when it came to route running and blocking those parts of his game were not above average..

I think he is a fascinating study of a player in the sense of he’s very difficult to figure out what his monetary value is.

I think his bravado, great hands, finishing style and toughness escalates his value in the eyes of his fans, I mean I was willing to pay the guy up to 12 mill a year, but not anymore..

Once I knew that wasn’t good enough I stared looking at him a bit differently, started seeing how he led his teammates and what I discovered was, it’s all about Jarvis.

As far as his game went, predraft I said good player but, the farther he leaves the LOS, the easier cover he becomes, that opinion only solidified at this level, I mean he’ll tell anyone that will listen that he’s not just a slot receiver and that he can play outside, shoot, if he went outside he wouldn’t be nearly as effective as a player, good corners using that sideline to play him would shut him down.. it’s just another example of his ego getting in the way..

His yards per catch relative to targets is really a damning stat, maybe CBrad or Pauly could get in on that stat and how bizarre of a stat it is for someone making 15 mill a year and who calls himself the best receiver in football.

 

landrys ypc was 12.2 with tanny in 16 and 8.8 with cutler in 17. same offense.

I think it's a qb driven number more than anything else. at least that's what I would use as juice's agent if someone tried to pin that as accurate for the player. i see no reason juice with competent qb play can't be a 12 ypc that averages 6 plus tds per year. and Miami has only had competence in the play caller department for the last 2 years.

 

Career 10 yards a catch..

What was your cap on him?

I think there is a some correlation between his lower YPC and imo that he’s less effective on longer routes..

 

Bingo.

 

I don't think Landry was holding us back as much as Parker's struggles, the limited impact of Stills in short passing yards, etc. In short, we had very little passing options with a struggling line and that makes someone like Landry look like a superstar. I went through the splits for you guys several months ago and showed that Landry has the 2nd worst total yards per catch and TD rate of any receiver on our team (except for Fasano).....Stills, Parker, Grant, Ajayi, Drake, Carroo, and every other eligible receiver did more with he ball when it was in their hands. It just so happened that Landry got 100+ catches as an escape valve and it all went to his head.

Plain and simple, Landry is very easily replaceable. No, Amendola won't break tackles like Landry and nobody has hands quite as good, but we don't hire receivers for making one-handed circus catches and running someone over two yards down field. Those were the two main areas Landry shined, as well as drawing unnecessary penalties after the play.

If I were the head coach and my player started a brawl after being told dozens of times to keep his cool and walk away, I would have traded him just like Gase did. And honestly, I don't care how much talent someone has...he directly cost us a football game last season with his temper tantrums. Add in the celebrating every freaking 5-yard catch and I won't miss the guy at all. I was a huge fan until he threw that final punch, and then everything changed for me.

Good riddance...let him rot in Cleveland. Maybe he can be QB1 there and run the WildCat for them.

 

“Last season when he called out certain players, not by name about spending more time in their playbooks-he was critical of what he wanted from his guys-leadership. Last year, the Dolphins craved leadership.

You could point to a number of instances where Adam Gase could be seen yelling at Jarvis Landry and for good reason-Landry clearly showed that the games were all about him and when things didn’t go his way-we saw it versus Buffalo in week 17, temper tantrum and ejections.”

https://thegruelingtruth.net/football/nfl/for-the-dolphins-the-new-mantra-is-team-unity/

Just some article but it brings up that question, was gase talking about Landry.

 

You realize that it can be both, right? Cutler was awful, and Suh and Landry did not help anything. In fact, it would seem that they actually hurt the team.

 

We’re all gonna miss the guy, some more than others but I don’t think any of us thought we should strap our cap at 13 to 15 for what he was.

 

Bottom line Res, imo Landry and Suh are not natural leaders..

 

Personally I viewed Landry as an overused pass catching RB in a sense.

Suh on the other hand . . . we're gonna miss the piss outta that guy.

 

lazors o was short passing game by design. I'd throw all those numbers out. same for the skill players #'s with cutler. dumpster fire them

3 out of our last 4 years have been nothing but a waste of time. I'd probably say 5 out of our last 6 when you consider there was no skill talent when Sherman was here. and he had tendencies like lazor you could set your watch too. the nfl just needed a year to catch up to lazors concepts.

 

We won't miss his contact but yeah, there's no replacing someone of that caliber.

 

Landry is a solid, tough player with good hands. But he's also selfish, flamboyant, hot headed, slow for his position, and limited in what he can bring to the table. Combine all of those things with his contract demands, and I wanted to trade him a year before we did.

He also developed a bit of a cult following with the fanbase that I was never part of or comfortable with. I don't wish him any ill, but I'm also glad that we're moving on without him.

 

whoa, thats some tough fandom right there..

not you, but I think why we fall for his is because he's fearless and shows up in clutch moments, which makes us look the other way when it comes to weaknesses, we feel like we have to have that confidence and swagger on the team, listen I want Javis Landry to be a dolphin, but when looking at the big picture when it came to contract demands he imo has an over inflated opinion of his game.

he's a very talented player but he is very slow as well.

 

juices lack of speed only really shows up on the boundary vs higher level athletes who can match his foot work. he's no real threat there. I don't anticipate Wilson will be that type of boundary guy either in terms of dictating to any coverage despite possessing more speed.

devantae parkers the only in house option that may dictate to coverage. of course the offset for all this is the tempo of play. which finally looks like it's here to stay. all signs point to package play and spreading the ball around.

package play on offense package play on defense

 

Funny how all of a sudden the best WR the Dolphins have had in two decades is now seen as a player the Dolphins will be better off with him no longer on the team.

Tannehill and Gase have zero excuses this coming season. Either the Dolphins make the playoffs with these players Gase wanted and his chosen QB or else we should see a new QB and and a new HC in 2019.

 

For me it’s about cost and whether what he brought to the table and team is worth it...

I thought 12 mill a year was really fair.

 

We don't know exactly what happened behind the scenes, but if Landry wasn't putting in effort to study the playbook and whatnot, he was causing more harm than good.

He was a guy the young players looked up to.

If the kind of example he was setting was that you didn't have to put in the effort off the field to be successful, he was damaging the culture in the locker room and had to go, simple as that.

 

I think that 12 is probably high, actually. Doug Baldwin is probably Landry's best comp, though he's a better player IMO. His cap hit is between 11-13m per season on his new deal.

I would also dispute the notion that Landry is the Fins best WR of the past two decades. He caught the most passes, sure, but he didn't do a whole lot with many of them. Chris Chambers was much more physically gifted, and on run oriented teams he managed to have several seasons that were better than Landry's in most ways beyond raw catches. In his brief time with the team, Brandon Marshall was also similar in that way.

Its my firm belief that freeing the team of his influence will free up the rest of the offense to step up and take things to the next level without him.

 

Chambers ended up being nothing more than a tease.

 

Has been a top 5 player on the team for the last 4 years. Not worth 15/year

 

Due to the crap we had at qb and coach.

 

I’m not a film expert, others are much better at it than me. However, the routes Landry ran in 2017, were to my eye the same as he ran in 2016.
Stills and Parker were running routes that required them to vary their speed, and sell fakes to the DBs, Landry wasn’t doing that. Because most of Landry’s routes were close the LOS he didn’t appear to be running option routes.
Others have commented that his routes weren’t very crisp or precise (I can’t personally tell). Which in modern timing based offenses means you can’t rely on him to be where he should be on deeper routes, and that’s before you look at speed/separation concerns.

So even discounting for Cutler I can see why the Dolphins weren’t prepared to pay as much for Landry as Landry thought he should be paid.

 

A selfish WR who wants the ball!?!?

Man those guys are unheard of in this league..

 

If Landry had an average WR # of catches last year, he would have produced around 450 yards with 4 TDs. We went to him a lot more than we should have, but saying he's a great receiver is a huge stretch. When you're #1 league wide in catches but not in the top 10 for yards, first downs, third down conversions or TD's, that's a massive red flag waving for everyone to see.

Cleveland missed it so good for Landry- he got his payday. And I'm sure he will bring just as much heart to their squad doing everything he can to make them successful. But he's just not that talented folks- his numbers CLEARLY prove that without even looking at all the dumb penalties and outbursts. He's an average NFL receiver that's slow with great hands and gives 100% effort. At the end of the day though, he's still an average NFL slot receiver.

 

Cutler sucked.

But some folks are overusing that as en excuse for every single flaw this team had.

We had the 29th ranked rushing offense and gave up 25ppg while playing the Jets and Bills 4x.

We were not good.

 

Ummm I would say he’ll do everything to make himself successful, and if that contributes to team success that’s a side effect. Apart from that I agree with what you said. Although also he is an above average slot receiver, quite possibly one of the best.

 

We could say the same about some Dolphins fans.

 

I think it had more to do with poor ball placement for max rac and ,and this ones a biggy, the fact that pa intermediate and vertical shots were completely off the table with cutler.

I also think miami resorted to getting the ball into Landry’s hands any way possible cause of once again qb execution forcing gase’s hand. That’s what the tape told me all along. As for lining up wrong with Landry and the media running with that I only saw that maybe twice all season and it was quickly corrected one time and we burned a timeout another. One time he lined up on the wrong side of the formation. It happens.

This is a qb problem primary. The execution was not there.

In terms of Landry’s market being in line with Doug Baldwin Baldwin signed his deal what 2 years ago in a different market. Having to pay juice had he hit free agency top 5 money was always gonna be on the table. He had too much production for anything else and you see what Cleveland did at north of $15 mil per.

So while I think the value to Miami may have been the $12 mil area the market wasn’t in line with that. And let’s also remember the guy played out his entire contract never once complained to the media or held out and fulfilled the terms of his contract. Hell it was a 4 year bargain for Miami. Never ever missed a game as I can recall.

I wish him the best and for our sake I hope someone steps up on 3rd down cause we used him on a ton of primary sticks concepts

 

It's not all of a sudden if you check my posts the last few years I was never on the Landry train. Perhaps I was bitter that we passed on Allen Robinson (I believe we traded down, Robinson was still there, and we traded down again ... or maybe we just traded down once) but we spent a #2 on a physically limited player. People said we were getting Anquan Boldin or Hines Ward but I never saw it. Those dudes trucked people while catching passes. Landry really only does so when they're not looking (blocks).

Don't get me wrong, Landry was a good WR. But the fact he was our #1 WR didn't speak well for our corps.

 

Because the Browns have always made smart decisions. Landry isn't 3/4 the WR Baldwin is. According to a few who watch a lot of film claim he was schemed open way more than other WRs.